health up
Our mission is to enhance and enlighten the well-being of others... welcome to 'health up' - our podcast channel. We provide relevant, real world health guidance that you can apply in your daily life.
health up
From Survival Mode to Conscious Thriving with Nadine Shaw & Anthony Hartcher
Are health and spirituality as connected as they seem? How can expanding consciousness lead to empowerment in all areas of life? In this powerful conversation, Anthony Hartcher and Nadine Shaw dive into the deep connections between health, spirituality, and consciousness. They explore how health habits and spiritual practises intersect and discuss the importance of moving beyond societal norms to embrace a more mindful and fulfilled life. From epigenetics to the power of gratitude and self-discovery, discover how mindset, love, and personal freedom shape both physical health and spiritual wellbeing.
Tune in to learn how to empower yourself beyond external influences like government, religion, and the medical system, and why health and spirituality are accessible to everyone.
About Nadine Shaw
Nadine Shaw is a holistic health advocate and the host of the podcast Life, Health and the Universe. With a deep commitment to personal empowerment and wellness, she explores the connections between body, mind, and spirit, guiding her listeners toward greater self-awareness and healing. Through her podcast and work, Nadine emphasises mindfulness, gratitude, and authenticity as keys to living a balanced and purposeful life.
Connect with Nadine Shaw
Website: https://lifehealththeuniverse.podcastpage.io/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/life_health_theuniverse/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LifeHealthTheUniverse
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4pktMRoOBi9HLlFBpTWrI2
Facebook: https://web.facebook.com/profile.phpid=100091937637281&_rdc=1&_rdr
About me&my health up & Anthony Hartcher
me&my health up seeks to enhance and enlighten the well-being of others. Host Anthony Hartcher is the CEO of me&my wellness which provides holistic health solutions using food as medicine, combined with a holistic, balanced, lifestyle approach. Anthony holds three bachelor's degrees in Complementary Medicine; Nutrition and Dietetic Medicine; and Chemical Engineering.
Podcast Disclaimer
Any information, advice, opinions or statements within it do not constitute medical, health care or other professional advice, and are provided for general information purposes only. All care is taken in the preparation of the information in this Podcast. [Connected Wellness Pty Ltd] operating under the brand of “me&my health up”..click here for more
Welcome back to another insightful episode of me&my health up. I'm your host, Anthony Hartcher, a clinical nutritionist and lifestyle medicine specialist. I'm excited to share this conversation I recently had with Nadine Shaw on her podcast, Life, Health and the Universe. Nadine and I have had the pleasure of connecting a few times over the past year on her podcast to explore the deep interconnections between health, spirituality and our conscious awareness. In this latest discussion, we really dive deep into some fascinating territory. We discuss topics like epigenetics, the limitations of the medical system and how cultivating gratitude and love can unlock our body's innate healing potential. Nadine and I also explore the role of habits, thoughts and beliefs in shaping our physical, mental and spiritual wellbeing. This is a thought-provoking conversation that challenges us to expand our understanding of the mind-body connection. Whether you're on a journey of personal growth or simply curious about the mysteries of the mind, body and spirit, I believe you'll find a lot of value in what Nadine and I discuss. So sit back, get comfortable and join us as we explore the incredible interconnectedness of life, health and the universe. I hope you enjoy this conversation.
Nadine Shaw:Today we're joined again by Anthony Hartcher. So Anthony, welcome. Good to have you here again.
Anthony Hartcher:Thanks, Nadine. Thanks for having me on. I really look forward to our conversation today.
Nadine Shaw:Yeah, Im looking forward to this one. So when I went back through to look when we recorded last, we had our, well, we had our first interview back in September last year. So pretty much 12 months ago. And then we did a follow-up about six weeks after that, I think. So the time's gone pretty quickly, but I touched base with you in July, I think. So a couple months ago, just to, or yeah, by the time this comes out, it'll be a couple months, with this question. So I'm going to read the email that I sent you and we'll get stuck in. Okay, where are we? So I feel like we have so many things, so many common interests and love the energy that you bring to the conversations. I'm particularly curious to discuss how health and spirituality interconnect. I feel like we have both been going on our own spiritual explorations and I'm keen to discuss your experiences, especially coming from the health space and the evolution that you've experienced. If you're keen to get, if you're keen, let me know and I'll send you a booking link. So here we are. You were keen. You said yes to the invitation and here we are. So little, not a little topic. But I, so obviously the podcast is called Life, Health and the Universe. So I have this, you know, feeling of the interconnectedness of all things, stories, health and esoteric wisdom. But it's like, if someone asks me, well, what's the podcast about? It's like, how do, like, I just want to sort of explore the threads of how those things interconnect and how we, you and I, have come from the health space and different areas of the health space actually, and come to this intersection where spirituality is a part of that thing, the thing we do. So over to you. Oh, and by the way, listeners, we're co-hosting today. So this is, yeah, we're just kind of gonna riff off of each other and see where the conversation takes us.
Anthony Hartcher:Yeah. So for me, spirituality growing up was religion, right? So I was brought up a Catholic and followed the Catholic path of religion. And it's through, I guess, the years of becoming wiser and more educated, I realised spirituality is more than religion. And religion, doesn't matter what religion you are, that they all have a commonality. In a sense, they believe in a higher order. And in essence, for me, the the best connection with spirituality is being the most authentic version of myself. And I think that's where we connect deeply is at that authentic level where we're just being ourselves. And I ultimately realised and discovered that I'm just going to be the best version of myself. And that's, that is therefore the best spiritual expression that I can be is when I'm myself and being the best version of myself. And so in order for me to be the best version of myself, I need to look after myself. I need to do things that are going to allow me to be the best version of myself. And that's obviously doing or putting the right things in my mouth, breathing fresh air, and being my most conscious self, because ultimately we're interconnected. We have this interconnectedness through consciousness. And when we're our most conscious self, we're most interconnected. When we are less conscious, so mindless, we are very much in our animal brain and we are all about ourself. We're all about survival when we're stuck in the animal brain. But when we're in that transcendental area of the brain, which is the prefrontal cortex, and the prefrontal cortex is where I reside. It's, It's my eye. And it's where I'm most connected with the universe and feel interconnected. But it's where we get lowered into our animal mind, where we get fixated on the physical world, and we lose touch of with the spiritual world. So that's mindlessness. When we drop into the animal world, we just have this black and white thinking about, okay, am I going to survive? And I'm going to do my best effort to survive, and then I'll, like, because in survival mode, we're not thinking about our immortal being. We're not thinking about what we're going to leave in terms of a legacy. We're thinking about, I just want to survive in the here and now. And so I think generally, with society, we, we generally get dragged into this animal brain through the media, social media headlines, sensations, drama. And all this drama just makes us feel insecure. And so therefore, we seek knowing because we want to know if we're going to survive. But then that just drives more stuck in this animal space. And it doesn't allow us to step out of there and step into this high level of consciousness where we have this interconnectedness. It then shows how your podcast title allows for that interconnectedness. And I think what we're discussing today is how it's interconnected and helping the listeners see that wisdom that you've come up with.
Nadine Shaw:Yeah, that was one that just popped into my head straight down. It downloaded from the universe, that title, which is often when those things happen, right? That's great. Well, you've kind of covered all bases. Like, I think that that was like clear to understand. Like, where you say that, that you know, we need to be the best version of yourself. You need to take care of all, all aspects of yourself and your body and your health and what you put in your mouth and what you breathe are parts of that because they're the human experience, right? So, yeah, the where I was going to go with my, I'll kind of go with my introduction and then I'll check, I'll check my notes because I wrote a whole bunch of things down that we could potentially talk about. So I, so spirituality-wise, I never really considered myself a spiritual person. My dad, was, his parents were Christian when he was growing up, so he had to go to church every Sunday. And when he grew up and had kids, he was like, that was a bloody waste of time. You don't, like, we're not doing that anymore. One, my eldest sister was christened and he was like, that was a bloody waste of time, right? So we did. So we went to Church of England school and we had learned the basics, you know, about all of the Christian things and went to church on festivals, harvest, Easter, Christmas. But as I grew up, I was kind of like a bit anti-religion and that's kind of where I always thought of spirituality and, you know, those two things being the same, really. In more recent times, I think, like, for me, and like, I still kind of grapple with that idea of like, if someone says, you're a spiritual person, just because I have still have those kind of thoughts around it. But for me, it's like, yes, I am. And I think we all are when we go back to who we truly are. And that matches with your, you know, description of like authenticity. But it's like our interconnectedness with all things, with nature as a whole and with the universe as a whole. Because yes, in our everyday lives, as you explained perfectly, we're in that, like, we just got to go to work, do the things, follow the rules, follow the systems, and we don't think about it. But when you think about it and you, you know, look around you and you look up at the stars at night, or like the fact that there's actually planets that we can see, we're part of that. It's not like we're here on Earth and, you know, the sky is over there. We're part of this bigger whole. And for me, that's what spirituality is. But, yeah, I am, I'm kind of, so that, I guess that's my description of it. But I wanted to talk about that intersection of the health and spirituality and like, where do they meet? Because we've definitely discussed a few things in our previous podcasts about this. And I've just been letting it tick over in my head. Do you want me to kind of drop in with with one of the things? Like, and where I, where I kind of go, yeah, here's some interconnectedness. And this is pretty basic stuff. But I'm gonna use a couple of different people who work in different areas that I've come across. And they're James Clear, who is all about habits. What's his book called? Atomic Habits. Author of Atomic Habits. He's all about habits. Okay. And how we can use habits to our advantage. Then we've got Joe Dispenza, who is, I don't even know how to describe him, but he's a meditation master. And he's got a book called Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself. So we start to see the interconnectedness. There's some, there's some interconnectedness there of like, yes, habits can be used for good or bad. Habits can be used to create health. But habits can also move us away from our spirituality or our potential. I don't know if that's... I don't know. I didn't really leave a question mark with any of that. It was more like there's a, just, you know, you start to see those connections, those threads coming together. How I can use these things. I can understand how to form habits in my health, but then I can understand how to break habits down in my, what did you call it? The mammalian brain?
Anthony Hartcher:Yeah. So, yeah, absolutely. It's that limbic centre, the mammalian brain.
Nadine Shaw:Where you're just in that kind of everyday cycle of doing the same thing without even thinking about it.
Anthony Hartcher:Correct. Correct. And, and that's where we have the addictive habits. It's, it's where we're trying to seek pleasure without pain and we see them as separate. But ultimately, once you walk down the spiritual path, you see pain and pleasure always together. They're interconnected. They're one. And so with that animal mammalian part of the brain, it's very much black and white. It's, I'm seeking pain. Avoiding pain.
Nadine Shaw:Some people might be seeking it.
Anthony Hartcher:And so they think they can, well, they live this illusion that we can, we can live life without pain and only pleasure. But as you walk down the spiritual path, you realise that they're as, they're one essentially, and always one. And it's only when we're in our animal part of the brain is where we get this perception. And it's, it's a delusion is
Nadine Shaw:Yes, yes, yes. But it's kind of interesting because that we just see the pleasure without the pain. However, what happens over time is that they become aware of the pain. So for example, for the listeners, so when someone buys some something on credit, for example, so you go to the shops and you buy this amazing $5,000 handbag and you've got the handbag in your hands and you're walking around with this Gucci handbag and you feel amazing and everyone's commenting on your Gucci handbag. And so you think it's just all pleasure. However, then the end of the month comes and you get the statement from the bank saying that you've got$5,000 owing on your credit card. And so then you become aware of the pain. And so this is how banks have been able to get us to consume credit because we get fixated on one side, which is pleasure, what we want. And then we become aware of the pain later on. And so their ability to separate the two has been in their favour, but to the detriment of the consumer, hence why we, we tend to overconsume debt. So this is what we, you know, if we're not consciously aware, this is the bank's commercial model, is to think that we can live in a delusional world of, you know, pleasure without pain. It often, you know, catches up with us once we become aware that, no, they're totally one and they're never separated. We just had this misperception that they were. So that's probably where, like, in terms of, you know, the, I guess, Joe Dispenza and James Clear, is that James Clear is just purely talking about habit, how habits are created and how to create new ones, whereas Joe Dispenza is talking at that more higher esoteric level, which is that fully full integration as you've been talking about spirituality is, is that we, we all one, we're not separate. And so, yeah, so I gue ss they're talking on two different planes. they they talk about the same things, right? But James Clear talks about like why habits are so good. And Joe Dispenza is like, why habit? He doesn't say the habits are bad, but how we can get caught up in this practise of, or not even a practise. Well, the benefit of habits from James Clear's perspective and like scientifically is that we, we don't have to think about it once it's integrated into our lives. And so, you know, for example, doing 10 pushups every day, 10 pushups every day after you go to the toilet, it, after a while, when you find the right spot for it, it just becomes habitual. You don't even think about it. You forget that you've done it kind of thing. It's like driving, you know, when you first get in the car, you have to try and learn how to do it, but then it becomes habitual. And so that that's beneficial from James Clear's perspective. But Joe Dispenza says we become so accustomed to doing all of those things, including the thoughts that we have, that they become habitual. And those thoughts, this is probably a good segue into another kind of interconnected thing. Those thoughts govern how we experience the world and our life. And so he talks about becoming more consciously aware of those things so that we can then start to break them down and reprogram. Yeah. Which kind of goes back to James Clear, where you're breaking things down and reprogramming.
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Anthony Hartcher:Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So James Clear is very much talking to the masses in terms of, I guess, the majority of society that's stuck in the animal brain that are just thinking it's all about changing habits and, you know, dumping old ones, creating new one. Whereas, I guess Joe Dispenza is at a totally different level in the spiritual realm and talking about oneness. So like, I like, so with, with habit formation, like habits can service or not, not service. And, you know, if you're looking at the Joe Dispenza world, you really need to know your spiritual path. You need to understand what's your mission and purpose on being, you know, being on planet Earth. And I think a lot of people are unaware or or they become unaware because they, they don't, I guess, think for themselves in a sense, they, because they're questioning enough and they're not asking enough questions. And, you know, have a, I guess, their minds shutting down. And, yeah, so I think in order to get to where Joe Dispenza is requires a completely open-minded and be willing to question, question and learn and learn and really have that transcendental mindset. Whereas with James Clear, he's just, I mean, he's, he's nailed it with a book that appeals to the masses. But in, in saying that, like Joe Dispenza's work obviously will set people on a spiritual path that will ultimately lead them to a more fulfilling life. Whereas, I guess, James Clear is just feeding that merry-go-round, so and people are still lost, whereas Joe Dispenza is really helping people find the light, see the light and keep that vision. Whereas, yeah, I guess James Clear is just helping, I guess, feed the merry-go-round where people will go from habit to habit, but really continue to be lost and not find their spiritual path. So that's how I distinguish the two. And I think, you know, people initially will embrace James, James Clear's work because it's more understandable. It's more tangible. Over time, if they continue down this path, they will start to embrace Joe Dispenza's work and go down that more spiritual path because ultimately the physical world is only 0.00001% of of reality. And, you know, the, I guess the spiritual world or the quantum world makes up 99.9999999%. So it, yeah, so ultimately, if you're wanting to know and sort of attach to physical things, then you get stuck in the physical world. Obviously, if you want to look beyond the physical world and explore the spiritual world, then that's stepping into Joe Dispenza's realm of realising that we have unlimited potential and infinite ability to grow. So, but in the physical world, we see limitations and we get attached. And as you said, our thoughts become quite limiting, whereas we let go of our thoughts and become one and see all possibilities, unlimited, unlimited possibilities when we step into Joe Dispenza's world.
Nadine Shaw:Yeah, but they've got to, they've got to exist together because we live in the body, right? Which is kind of like, yeah, where we're at. Taking, taking care of the three, the three-dimensional human that we are, the human experience, but having this also, yeah, conscious, like expansive consciousness. Yeah, they need to come together. So let me ask you this question. What, it's like, what comes first, the chicken or the egg? The health or the, you know, health or spirituality, consciousness, what do we call it? Does it matter what comes first? Is there, do you, okay, these are just kind of like, go with whatever one. Do you think that because of your journey with, in the health space, it's led you to become a more spiritual being and to delve into those kind of other areas of life?
Anthony Hartcher:I actually think it's more my curiosity, yeah, and wanting to learn. And, because if I think about health, people really get fixated on the physical aspects of health in terms of the way they look, you know, wanting to be youthful, wanting longevity. And I have never really, you know, I've done health, but not for those reasons. So I've never been fixated on my physical appearance, you know, like, I never tried to stop my hair loss, for example, you know, people get really scared and phobic about losing their hair. Or going grey. Yeah, exactly. And so that, that for me, I just let that go from a very early age. It didn't really, you know, I didn't, it didn't worry me. And then same with my physical appearance. I've never, never sought to be, or I've never done the gym or resistance training to have a six pack or to have big biceps or guns or anything like that. That I've never done it for that reason. And so for me, health's always about being healthy in a sense of just wanting to look after myself. And then it was the curiosity that ultimately led to going down the more spiritual path. And, and I guess, just circling back to, yeah, James Clear and as you were saying, they have to co-exist. And absolutely, you're right. And people will discover either one depending on where they're at and what they're looking for. So, and really form a bond or connection with either leader in their space based on, you know, where they're at in their growth and journey. So, and in terms of habits, absolutely, like, our body automatically breathes, our heartbeat automatically beats. And so the majority of our physical being just is in autopilot. So, we, and thank God we don't have to consciously breathe and consciously, you know, control our heart and all that. So it enables us to, you know, have this level of consciousness that can then focus on, I guess, bigger things such as this topic of conversation. So, yeah. So for me, in terms of the chicken and the egg, which one comes first? Well, it ultimately depends on where the listeners at in their journey. And yeah, so for me, I'm not worried about which one comes first because you can have a case for and against both of them. And ultimately, for me, I'm pursuing both paths in terms of looking after my physical health and doing what I can and also wanting that spiritual growth. And so I certainly don't see myself separate in terms of my physical and spiritual presence, other than I'm always seeking to do what I can to expand my awareness in this area. You know, follow Joe Dispenza's work and other greats in this area and continue to grow and develop and have these conversations to help others grow and develop.
Nadine Shaw:Yes. Yeah. Interestingly, someone, I was talking to someone the other day and they said, oh, you know, how's the podcast going? And it was just as I'd emailed you. And he said, I just wanted to sort of say, you know, it's all, this is my translation. It's all very well, you know, life, health and the universe. And, but when people are like, he didn't use the word stressed, but it was almost like caught up in the everyday. It's almost impossible to do these things. And I get it. However, there's another part of me that's like, well, actually, there's a whole bunch of stuff that you can do that's free that you don't need. You don't need to be a consumer. You don't to, like, move your body, to go for a walk. You don't need to be a consumer to open up your consciousness or to take some moments in stillness. So I was interested to, like, he suggested that the things that we're doing are luxuries that not everyone is entitled to or is able to do.
Anthony Hartcher:Well, uh, I...
Nadine Shaw:What do you reckon? I... Strongly disagree.
Anthony Hartcher:Well, yeah, that's correct. Correct. However, in saying that, I see it from his point of view, because when you're stuck in that mentality and only see, you know, see a lot of limitations and then, then you start to hear us speak or Joe Dispenza speak, they see it as not tangible because it's so distant because they're so stuck in their, in their world. They don't see unlimited possibilities. They don't see their ability to be able to step out of the rat race and to become Nadine and doing a podcast and talking about spirituality and sharing that it can be done at, you know, zero cost. It's, there's no cost associated with it. It's ultimately understanding your spiritual path and and doing what's most important to continue on, you on your spiritual path. I think part of the reason why people think they're stuck is that they're doing what they think they they're supposed to do. So they're in this conformance and they can't break this conformance mentality. And it's a very much a herd mentality and it's a mentality that the government wants you to be in because otherwise they can't control the masses. Otherwise we have chaos and anarchy and and it's the same as religious organisations. They want to have the power over you so that you stay believing that they are the only way that in which you can see the light. And so therefore, you know, that they've got some control over you and they can control large groups of people. And so ultimately they share this delusion on us or they, you know, preach this delusion on us that we are reliant on them and we have some dependence on them. And they always want us to feel that way, that it's out of our control. We don't, you know, ultimately, we need their help. And so they're constantly setting up systems and I guess policies around us thinking that we need them. And so, and then we become attached and thinking, yeah, and we do, we become attached to the NDIS, we become attached to Social Security, we become attached to handouts and and we become attached to the medical system and...
Nadine Shaw:Consume it. Just consumerism.
Anthony Hartcher:Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, 100%. And ultimately, the government likes that because they have some control, because they can say, well, if you don't conform, I'm going to pull it away from you. And it's the same as sending our children to daycare. If you don't get your children vaccinated, you can't claim the benefits of us. And so, there's lots of parents that were very stuck in the conundrum thinking, yes, I want the benefit, but I don't really want my children vaccinated. And so, what do I do? And so, this is the whole coercive control by the government. And that's how religious organisations control the masses too, is through setting up these rules that are ultimately unattainable, and we always fall short of them. And so, therefore, we think we need the spiritual organisation in order to get enlightened or in order to go to heaven, whereas in fact, they just set this system up so that we can't actually meet the, you know, meet the so-called, you know, 10 Commandments, for example. And that we absolutely we, you know, and we then think we're sinners, and therefore, if we remain sinners, we're going to go to hell. But if we ask for forgiveness, then, you know, and that's conforming to the church and following their rules, then I'll go to heaven. So, it's like, and if I don't contribute to the plate every week, then that that's not a good thing because I'm not contributing to the church, and therefore, I'm going to go to, you know, hell. And this is how they, they maintain their organszations and contain that coercive control. So, I think I've sort of gone on a bit of a tangent here, so hopefully - That's all right, go for it. It's helping the listener better understand the bigger picture and why they feel stuck at times, and it's often because of this puppet pulling by the government or religious organisations that they feel that they're somewhat limited.
Nadine Shaw:They are, yeah, they're limited, yeah, yeah, they're limited. Yeah. I thought that was a really good, stuck and limited,they're really good, good words, I think, for that. And interestingly, I feel like the, the more connected I feel in a spiritual sense or, you know, connectedness with with the whole, the more I feel like those organisations that you spoke of, you know, television, the news, the government, church, it's almost like drawing you away from your full potential. It feels to me, I can see like a deliberate, you know, blindsiding, don't let them see it, because if they see it, they're going to be unstoppable kind of thing, right? So, that's kind of interesting how that happens. And it, and it happens with where, when people, well, we can kind of see how those things start to, we're cut off from our spirituality because of those things, we feel stuck and limited. But also when we're in that cycle, health also takes a hit in many ways, because we're watching advertising, you know, we're getting sucked into what we want, that instant gratification that you were talking about, you know, that doesn't serve us. And so, there's that whole cycle that goes on as well. There's lots of, you start going, oh, and that, and that, right?
Anthony Hartcher:Yeah, just, just to add to that, Dr. John, Dr. John Demartini shares, if you don't empower yourself in all areas of life, you'll you'll get disempowered or overpowered in that area, right? And that's ultimately where people feel because they don't empower themselves in all their areas of their life, then they feel disempowered in a certain area, and they feel controlled in that area. And if you fixate yourself on that, you know, as you said about, you know, your thoughts become your reality, if you've been focused on, you know, I'm dependent on the government for this and that, you know, therefore I'm stuck. I don't want to get off the NDIS because I'm getting these handouts. The minute I get off the NDIS, I'm going to lose this money. And so, and so in essence, they've that, you know, the government's got control over them and they've got control over their health. And it's the same as our medical system. It's setting the people up for being disempowered so that they don't, they ultimately don't want people to be empowered in their health because that's another string that the government has over you to think that you need them, you know. So, and again, that's where, you know, like the whole drug companies, the drug companies, for example, don't have, and the medical system has no plan B to get the person off the drug, because the only way the drug companies can make money is to keep selling the drug. And so there's no plan B. And so the doctor will prescribe the drugs, but not talk about how they're going to get that person off the drug. Their job is done once they prescribe the drug and they're free of all liability once they prescribe the drug. And so, so the person takes the drug and feels that they, I guess they feel disempowered and that they need the drug and they become dependent on the drug. And it's, again, it's getting back to these addictions, and James Clear's around habits and all these sort of things. And, and once you start having these dependencies and it starts forming habits, then in essence, you're not seeking to empower that area any further because it's sort of, it's the symptoms have gone for now. I don't need to worry about it anymore. But if you're saying no to the drug, then you've got to look for other avenues. You've got to explore the universe for all possibilities as to what else I can do. And that's seeking a journey of empowerment. And then once you realise there's so many other options other than the drug, for example, the drug is point 0.0001% of options. And then in terms of what is accessible to you is 99.999% of all possibility in terms of other avenues, other than the drug, to cure yourself. And so this, ultimately, I mean, it's all intertangled, but I just really wanted to share with the listeners as to why they may feel stuck. And it's if in order to break this feeling stuck, what I encourage the listeners to do is start empowering themselves and educating themselves in the areas they feel disempowered. So if they feel disempowered in health, and this is the same as like, if, yeah, I'll just finish that, if you feel disempowered with health, then start getting educated in health, and then you'll start to feel empowered. For example, in relationships, when someone feels disempowered in a relationship, of course, the other person is going to be called a narcissist because they have the power, right? So, but the, in order to make it a level playing field and to have equality in relationships, you need to empower yourself in relationships. And so, again, if you're feeling that you're in a narcissistic relationship, time to start leveling up by seeking empowerment, by getting educated on relationships, discovering yourself. And so, if you go on that self-discovery, you start working on yourself, then you'll find that you start to have a voice. You can start speaking out because you have more confidence. You're starting to reassure yourself. And often in this disempowerment in relationships is insecurities, and they come from childhood. So if you work on those insecurities from childhood, you'll start to strengthen your inner voice, and then you'll be able to speak your voice to your partner and have equality, have more equality. And again, if you're feeling that you're limited and stuck with your finances, your financial position, go and get educated. Or if you're not really wanting to get educated, then you've got to be willing to pay for help and pay an expert in that area. And that's not a get rich quick scheme. It's actually finding a qualified expert that can actually empower you, educate you with your finances and how to manage, better manage them. And so again, there's other areas of life that we ultimately want to empower. But if you don't empower these other areas, then you're going to be controlled in that area by someone else.
Nadine Shaw:And well, there's a couple of different things I could, oh, there's lots of different things I could, could say about that. But one thing about about that, well, that there's that phrase where your attention goes, the energy flows, right? And so, and that's kind of like a universal law for good or bad. And so, yeah, if you, but when you, if you're going for empowerment, then putting your full attention on something and bringing energy to it can help to heal it, process it, and make it something that on that continuum of bad or good is moving more towards good. But again, it's a, yeah, it's kind of like that interconnection of 3D and and universal consciousness. Another thing that I thought of, you know, when you were talking about this disempowerment, and we were sort of saying that it can lead to, I think I said it could, you know, it leads to health problems. Well, there's a couple of different ways to go with this. But interestingly, as a health practitioner, when people start living in these, you know, limited mindsets, you know, experiencing disease, stress, one of the things that we get them to do is meditate. I think that's where my interconnection started to come in more because it was like breath work, meditation as a way of relaxing and dropping down out of the stress state, rest and digest out of the fight or flight. Yeah. So interestingly, meditation's a recommendation that we might use for someone who is trying to improve their health because of stress. Okay. Epigenetics, because again, this is the, this is your thoughts control your reality, but this can actually be be related to your health. But it's kind of like, again, an energetic thing, right? So I'm sure that a lot of the people listening have heard of epigenetics, but we absolutely would have heard of genetics. Because for a long time, it was like we were basically following in the footsteps of our forefathers and foremothers, when it came to what we were going to experience, especially when it came to health, right? So I'll give you an example. When I turned 45, I went to the doctor and he was like, oh, you need to have a, you need to have a 45-year, you know, health check, which I didn't do. But I was like, why? Like I'm in pretty good nick. Like, I'm, I'm pretty like, there's nothing going on. I was actually there because my little girl was unwell. And he was like, oh, well, have your parents had, you know, this, have your grandparents had this, you know? And I was like, yeah, my dad's had this, and my mum's had this, and my grandfather had type 2 diabetes, you know, lifestyle related, blah, blah. It was like, oh, well, you've, you're, you're high risk kind of thing. Genetics, because of my genetics. But we now know, and I think that people still believe that that's the case, right? Oh, I heard someone say just the other day, bad knees run in my family. What? I shouldn't laugh. Epigenetics is a discovery that was made by Bruce Lipton, I think. And in fact, his book is called The Biology of Belief because he found that cells actually change depending on their environment, including our thoughts, because our thoughts produce chemicals, reactions in our body. Those chemical reactions produce illness or wellness.
Anthony Hartcher:100%, 100%, yeah.
Nadine Shaw:So that's kind of like a health and the universe thing, isn't it?
Anthony Hartcher:It totally is, because the medical system will want you to believe that genetic because that they, you're disempowered totally. Like, so it's saying, well, I'm destined. So this is my destiny. It's to follow my parents, my ancestors. And therefore, I need your drug. I need your solution. So whatever your solution is, give it to me because I don't want to end up like my grandparents and ancestors. However, those seeking empowerment will realise, no, that's only, again, a very small portion of the truth. And, and it has, it doesn't govern our destiny. So when we look at the universe, we know that there's unlimited possibilities. And if, again, if we want to, as you said, where we focus our attention, our energy flows. And so if we focus that it's on genetics, then we'll look and find more and more support that it's all about genetics. And that, and therefore, we find more evidence that our thinking is correct. And then we, you know, get hardwired into into that thinking and and think, okay, I've got no option other than to take the drug or to get the test or whatever. However, because we know that's not true. It's true in the case that we allow that gene to express itself through not looking after ourselves. And so we know that, okay, we've got the genetic potential, but we've also got unlimited possibilities. And so at the same time as yes, we have that predisposition. It's a possibility, but it's not the only possibility. If I look after myself, then I can not allow that gene to express itself. And so what they are showing you in terms of your genetics is that you have this potential, but it hasn't yet expressed itself. You have control over whether it expresses itself. And so this is where the empowerment comes back to you is that you can make the choices either to turn on that gene or to keep that gene switched off. And so that it never expresses itself. And so as you said, Nadine, you've got this genetic predisposition or potential for all these particular pathways. And so if you started to then think, well, shit, what's the point? I'm going to end up like my parents. So therefore, I'm going to smoke, I'm going to drink, I'm going to party. Absolutely. Then the probability of that potential escalates. However, if you say, no, I'm in control of my health. I'm in control of my destiny. I'm going to continue to look after myself. Then the probability becomes very low of the potential that gene expressing itself. And so, yes, you are empowered. You can make the decisions to increase the probability in the favour that it doesn't happen, or you can do, you know, the converse or the contrary. So again, it really comes back to empowerment. And obviously the medical path is all about, well, disempowerment. So, you know, the doctor, the medical system has all the knowledge and you have this belief that they know everything, which is not true. And ultimately, they've got a part truth in what they know, and there's an element of truth in what they know, but they don't know the whole truth. And they're not seeking to know the whole truth. Otherwise, they would be open to you exploring alternatives, given that they're dogmented and havethis one-sided view that this is the only way, drugs or surgery. Therefore, they're ultimately not on a spiritual path. They're very much stuck in that, my way or the highway, which is that animal, that mammalian brain and getting stuck in there. And so I think I've probably spoken a lot to your point. Is there anything else you wanted me to discuss? Did I miss anything?
Nadine Shaw:No, I don't think so. I just, yeah, I think that, that it's a, it's, it's a very interesting, yeah, connection that we can see between our health and spirituality. When, when we know that, again, talk about energetically or how our thoughts can produce, yeah, that chemical reaction in our body that can feed disease. And that also links back with Joe Dispenza as well. He's done extensive testing on lots of people when they're in a meditative, meditative, meditative state. And like, they've tested that, they've done blood work and seen how the blood work changes within the period of, of like, what, when their brain, brain waves change and that sort of thing. So it's a thing.
Anthony Hartcher:Absolutely, Nadine. And just on that point, is that when you're in a meditative state, you're in that realm of unlimited possibilities. And so the body is in a total balanced state. And therefore, that the chance of, I guess, that medical belief that, you know, the genetics is going to express itself is so low. It is extraordinary low because you're tapped into the 99.99% of all possibilities. All the other possibilities. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.
Nadine Shaw:And although I know Joe, like Joe Dispenza has people that have done like, cured themselves from extraordinary illness, what we would have probably called, you know, 30 or 40 years ago, miracles, right? Because they believed in a different potential for themselves. Like it's, it doesn't happen to everyone. And in fact, it seems that kind of that, you know, dramatic shift into a new reality for a human often comes at a point of crisis, health crisis. So I thought that that might be a good one to talk about. Have you got any?
Anthony Hartcher:Yes, absolutely. Yeah. So totally. It's, it's where the person hasn't prioritised their health and, you know, they've sort of focused on other areas of their life. And they've become very empowered in the other areas of life and got great results. And, you know, whether it's business or it's in, I don't know, social connection, you know, they're out partying all the time and you know, they're increasing their, uh, well, certainly their social connection. And then therefore, they're not doing health. And therefore, their health deteriorates. And ultimately, it wakes them up, um, so that health scare wakes them up to make them realise that, hey, in order for you to continue, you need to do something in this area. Otherwise, you're going to continue on a downhill spiral based on what you're currently doing. So it certainly wakes them up to what they're doing is not serving their health and wellbeing or that they're just not putting enough attention to their health and wellbeing. And so often, yeah, and that will happen to people that don't have a high value or high priority on health. However, those that have a high priority and high value on health, it's unlikely that that will happen because they're constantly prioritising their health and doing things that serve them. However, they can get caught up in certain organisations such as, you know, whether it be veganism or they get very much into like a cult or a belief system, thinking that what they're doing is the ultimate path to health and wellbeing. However, it is myopic. And again, I'm not criticising anyone that's a vegan. It's more just waking them up that there's other areas of health and wellbeing that need focus as well. So it's not just all about what you put in your mouth as you aware, you know, there's the sleeping element, there's managing stress. And so you could have a perfectly great diet. And I see plenty of people that come to me with a textbook diet, like they tick all the boxes, but they're sick. And the reason why they're sick is because they're either not, you know, they're overstressed and their body's not doing the regeneration work. As you said, the rest and digest system is always switched or predominantly switched off. They're not getting sleep or, you know, they're out taking recreational drugs or whatever it might be that they haven't looked at the holism around health. It's not just the myopic focus of just doing one thing. We need to be looking at the whole health in order to maximise our potential for an alternate other than the genetic predisposition.
Nadine Shaw:Yeah. I think it's really interesting that when, when someone is in a health crisis, how it can can change their attitude, especially when it comes to what's important, right? And, you know, appreciating the simple things in life, let's say. But you also hear stories of, you know, people in health crisis on, literally on their, like, I heard a podcast with someone, I can't remember what, where it was, and it was a woman who now teaches about spirituality. I'm not sure, I can't remember what specifically she does, but she was like, stage four cancer on life support, family there, waiting to say goodbye, kind of like, you know, lost heaps of body weight, like, was basically a skeleton in a bed, unconscious. And she had a spiritual experience where, yeah, where, you know, she was basically given the decision, whether she was to come back and do something with her life and to change her life dramatically, or whether she was to pass over, and she came back. And not only did she come back, but she came back and left the hospital like a month later with no cancer, with that, yeah, when they'd said nothing else is going to work. Have you heard that? Have you heard that? Yeah, amazing. Amazing.
Anthony Hartcher:The body has innate programming on how to heal. It knows what to do. We, we've got to allow it the capacity to heal. And, and, part of that process is the want to that, the belief that I I want to heal. And therefore, as you said, where our thoughts go, our energy flows. And so therefore you provide the energy to healing. And yeah, the body is very good at doing what it needs to do to heal. It's just, you know, in terms of where, I guess, the choices we make in a sense, some people in that situation just give up, think what's the point. And obviously they'll continue to spiral and decay. Whereas she chose the light and, you know, and sought, sought enlightenment. And, and that obviously gave her the strength and the energy to heal.
Nadine Shaw:Yeah. Amazing. We've, we're pretty close to the hour now, Anthony. What was I going to say about that? I guess, you know, I guess so we it would be good to try and conclude. I think we've come to some, some good realisations or some, you know, created some connections when it comes to health and spirituality. And I think that in fact, I know that you have a an online course that's called Mindful Mindset, right? And I don't reckon that we can deny the connection between mindfulness and like having a positive mental attitude. I don't think we can. I think we can conclude that that is connected to spirituality. Would I be? Or like universal consciousness, the quantum, right? It is. Yeah. And so we do, we connect mindfulness and mindset with health a lot. It has a massive, a massive connection, like the decisions we make around and the choices we make and and so on. There you go. Solve the problem for the world. Yeah. So I think that, and like, through our conversation, we've kind of shown that there is great power in our thoughts. Yeah, the energetics behind it. Have you got anything to say on that? I know that you also work with mental health, right? So like, and that I guess that might be touching on something slightly different, because often people with mental health can have imbalance, like chemical imbalances, or hormonal imbalances.
Anthony Hartcher:Yeah, like, obviously, there is that element. But it's, as you said earlier in the episode, that our thoughts create these, yeah, whether it's stress hormones or stress neurotransmitters. Yeah. And so our thinking can do that, imbalance. And so it's not necessarily a set point. It's not they're fixated or stuck there. If they believe they are then, yes, they'll remain stuck there. But if they open themselves to unlimited possibilities, yes, their body can autocorrect the imbalance. It doesn't need a drug. We can change our thinking. And I guess that's where you're going to is that we have the ability to create better thoughts about ourselves or have a better, or be more open to a better understanding of the world. And I guess an openness to hearing what we had to say today. And in essence, that their body knows how to restore homeostasis. It's, you know, it's an innate ability. Yeah.
Nadine Shaw:Yeah, yeah. And, and anything, I guess, that isn't homeostasis, like when we're not in balance is because there's something going on that's creating that imbalance, not because we're not capable of finding it. That's not to say that it's necessarily an easy journey because we have to really delve into those the darker sides of ourself. And going back to what you said earlier about that being on a, on a continuum, like, it's not like, you're either healthy or you're not like, that's a continuum. Yeah, you're either conscious or your unconscious, there's a, you know, when it comes to your spirituality, it's a continuum. Yeah, but, and so sometimes you have to go into the more uncomfortable aspects not to get rid of them or not because you're bad or not because it's wrong, but just so that you can see what's going on and that's your, you know, staying curious.
Anthony Hartcher:And I think it probably leads to this sort of point that the ultimate healers are love and gratitude. And so ultimately, love and gratitude are oneness. So it's being grateful for the way things are, not the way you wish they would also be, you know, like so again, we typically do gratitude towards things that have been supportive to us, but it's ultimately finding gratitude and grace to the things that haven't been supportive to us. And, and this is where we become one. And ultimately, love is unconditional. And so it's loving everyone, everything. And once we're in that aligned state, then our body absolutely has unlimited potential, healing potential. And so I think ultimately that's where people want to take what we've discussed today is seeking more love, gratitude, and enlightenment. Ultimately, that's where this conversation has hopefully taken the listeners.
Nadine Shaw:Yes. Yeah, I agree. And that's a brilliant note to finish on. I can't remember exactly what it was that I heard, but it was along the lines of when you are, when you're in gratitude, you can't feel hate. Yeah. You can only feel love. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. So yeah, that's a really perfect ending to the conversation. I really appreciate you taking the time today. Yeah. I love our chats and some of the rabbit holes we were able to go down together. So thank you so much for joining me and hopefully we'll speak again soon.
Anthony Hartcher:Thank you, Nadine. And thank you listeners for tuning in.
Nadine Shaw:Yeah. Thank you, listeners.
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