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Living with OCD for Decades: Janaya's Journey of Resilience and Recovery

• me&my wellness / Janaya Karloci • Season 1 • Episode 231

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Could you be living with OCD without realizing it? How can naturopathic treatments like hormone regulation and gut health support aid in recovery? 🌿 

In this episode, join host Anthony Hartcher as he speaks with Janaya Karloci, a naturopath and OCD specialist, about her personal 20-year battle with OCD. Janaya shares how she finally received a correct diagnosis, the challenges of managing obsessive thoughts and compulsive behaviors, and her recovery journey using Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP) therapy, SSRIs, and natural treatments. Discover the importance of understanding OCD's diverse presentations and a holistic approach to treatment. 

About Janaya Karloci
Janaya Karloci is a passionate and degree-qualified Naturopathic practitioner specialising in mental wellness and OCD awareness. With over 20 years of personal experience battling obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), Janaya combines conventional treatments with naturopathic solutions to help others overcome their health challenges. As a mother of two, she understands the complexities of mental health, especially in women, and is dedicated to guiding individuals toward peace, resilience, and empowerment through personalised, practical treatment strategies that support holistic wellbeing.

Connect with Janaya Karloci
Website: https://janayakarlocinaturopath.com.au/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/janayakarlocinaturopath/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/janayakarlocinaturopath/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/janaya-karloci-naturopath-pty-ltd/


About me&my health up & Anthony Hartcher    
me&my health up seeks to enhance and enlighten the well-being of others. Host Anthony Hartcher is the CEO of me&my wellness which provides holistic health solutions using food as medicine, combined with a holistic, balanced, lifestyle approach. Anthony holds three bachelor's degrees in Complementary Medicine; Nutrition and Dietetic Medicine; and Chemical Engineering.

Podcast Disclaimer
Any information, advice, opinions or statements within it do not constitute medical, health care or other professional advice, and are provided for general information purposes only. All care is taken in the preparation of the information in this Podcast. [Connected Wellness Pty Ltd] operating under the brand of “me&my health up”..click here for more

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Janaya Karloci:

I would be so frightened of losing everything, and it's really hard to explain to people that don't understand OCD, but I was literally living in a nightmare where any moment I would be taken away from my family, and it got to a point where even driving, I was driving and then driving back to check that I hadn't hit someone, or because I was so paranoid of accidentally hitting someone and doing a hit and run, and then being put in jail and being taken away from my family.

Anthony Hartcher:

That was Janaya, and you've landed on the me&my health up podcast. I'm your host, Anthony Hartcher, a clinical nutritionist and lifestyle medicine specialist. The purpose of this podcast is to enhance and enlighten your wellbeing. And today we have Janaya, who's a naturopath and a specialist in OCD, obsessive compulsive disorder. We discuss her journey, her story around discovering after 30 years that she had OCD, and how she's gone about recovering from her OCD. So this is a really insightful discussion with Janaya. We talk about OCD, what it is, what to look out for, and how to go about getting support and help. And Janaya is an expert and specialist in this area. So buckle up and join me and Janaya for this insightful conversation on OCD. Welcome on the me&my health up podcast. How are you, Janaya?

Janaya Karloci:

I'm good. Thanks, Anthony. How are you?

Anthony Hartcher:

Fantastic. So great to have you on the show and really looking forward to our insightful discussion on OCD and all about your journey and how you've arrived at what you're doing today. And for the listeners, I've known Janaya for a long time. We went to uni together, we studied together, did lots of herb subjects together and had lots of fun, and we still stay in touch, I guess, post-qualifications and out in the real world practising. So really excited to have this discussion with Janaya. And so just please share with the listeners how you've arrived at what you're doing today.

Janaya Karloci:

Yeah, sure. So I was studying naturopathy for 10 years, part-time while I was living my life, working, having children, so forth. And I guess in the meantime, once I finished my degree, actually, I realised I had OCD. So we worked out, I've probably had it for 20 years since I was about 18. It just got worse over time. I would go and over the years, I saw many, you know, therapists, GPs and whatever. And it was always, you know, you've got anxiety, you've got anxiety. I tried some SSRIs a long time ago and they didn't really help me. And it's sometimes actually the treatment I was getting for anxiety with psychology and so forth, it actually made it worse. So I think over the years, I just kind of lived like this and I struggled sometimes more than others, especially when I was more stressed out. And then, you know, I had a baby and I was giving up my career that I had. And I took some time out and I was studying full-time and then I had another baby and then eventually I cracked. I got so bad to the point where getting up in the morning was a struggle and I had two young children and I would just, I would be so frightened of losing everything. And it's really hard to explain to people that don't understand OCD, but I was literally living in a nightmare where any moment I would be taken away from my family. And it got to a point where even driving, I was driving and then driving back to check that I hadn't hit someone or because I was so paranoid of accidentally hitting someone and doing a hit and run and then being put in jail and being taken away from my family. Because had I really hit someone, I would have gone back and helped. You know what I mean? But in my mind, I was like, I didn't. I was so worried that I hit someone without knowing. So that's, and then I listened to a podcast. Well, actually my husband, he had said over the years, you know, I think you might have OCD. I think you have, might have OCD. And again, you know, I didn't know much about it. I would talk to therapists or whatever and they were like, no, no, you don't have OCD. And then I was listening to a podcast my husband sent me a few years ago and I was like, oh my God, this is me. Like this person is telling my story. And she was talking about how she recovered from OCD. And I just straight away went, found a therapist that specialised in a particular therapy called ERP, which is exposure response and prevention therapy. And I started seeing her weekly for about three months. I was still really struggling. So I went on SSRI. We played with the dose of those over six months or so. And then I don't know, about six to eight months in, I was starting to feel better and I've reduced my therapy. And all the while I was using naturopathy as well. And I guess, I don't know, I'd say from a year after I started to when I finished, I would consider myself recovered now, but it's a daily, it's a daily, I don't know, management system, you know? So, um, yeah, that's, that's how I got to where I'm get, I've got to, because I can see how naturopathy can help a lot of the symptoms of OCD. And I'm a big believer of, it takes a toolkit, not a tool. And I just want to help anyone out there that's struggling with OCD, because I get it. It is tough, especially because it's so misunderstood.

Anthony Hartcher:

Yeah. So let's get into the definition first as what OCD is, just for those that aren't across it. Yeah.

Janaya Karloci:

Yeah. So OCD is, it's a mental health condition. It's a psychiatric disorder and it's characterised by having obsessions, which are persistent, they're intrusive, and they're often really irrational, followed by compulsion. So they're like repetitive behaviour or mental acts that feel urgent, like if they're not done, what they're thinking about could happen. So, and when I say irrational, I mean, I would tell my husband something that I was thinking about, and he was just like, I do not understand how your brain even comes to those conclusions. Like.

Anthony Hartcher:

Can you share, if you don't mind?

Janaya Karloci:

Yeah, sure. I'll share some. So mine were always around doing something that could cause harm, and then often got taking it that little bit further, that would then impact my life as well. So if I was in a shopping centre and I spilled a drink, I would literally have to go find a cleaner, talk to that cleaner, take them to the spot, make sure that they clean it up. Like I'd be watching to make sure they cleaned it up, because I couldn't have someone fall over and it'd be my fault. So that's one type of example. Or accidentally leaving a gate open at my child's kindergarten. You know, there's a door and a gate, but if I left the gate open, I'd be going back and checking all the time because I wouldn't want to be responsible for a child getting out and getting lost or being hit by a car. Hit and run, like I told you about. I know most people sit there and they say, you would know if you hit someone, but I'd go over a bump or something and go, oh my God, what happens if there was actually a person? And I would drive back again and again and again and again to check. Trying to see, seeking reassurance for something I'd done or thought about. And sometimes that meant confessing. So I would, many nights, I'd be in there with my husband going, I did this today and then this happened and this happened. Do you think that this could happen? And he'd be like, you're right, you're right. But eventually we learned that by him giving me reassurance was making it worse as well. Mentally reviewing, going over memories, preparing for the worst case scenarios. So I would often write pages and pages of what I would say, what I would do if this happened or if this happened, or if this happened. I hope this is making sense.

Anthony Hartcher:

It makes a lot of sense, Janaya. I'm just wondering how it got missed. Like for me, yes.

Janaya Karloci:

I don't know. No, I mean, it got worse over time. Like, the way I say it to people is, you know, that old saying that used to be on ads, I don't know if it is anymore, about every cigarette is doing you damage, right? Every compulsion is doing you damage. So it almost becomes like an addiction and a it's the only way you can live your life is if, okay, I have a thought, I have to do this action. I do a thought, I have to do this action. I think it was missed because, you know, I only learned what OCD was when I heard that podcast and then I went and did my own research. But, you know, I always thought it was needing to be clean or things in order or, and I'm not like that at all. Sure, I like things to be organised but the difference is I would have a thought of what happens if I hit someone and didn't know about it and instead of going, oh, I would know and move on. I would literally have to go drive back and check or, yeah, it's always, I think, the other things that have that are linked is like catastrophic thinking, you know, black and white reasoning, like you're either wrong or you're right, there's no in-between and there's total overestimation of stress, oh, threat, you know. It would be like, in my experience, it was, there could be 500 different chance, 500 different things that could happen in a scenario and I would have to work out each one, whether it was 99% chance or 1% chance, I had to work out every single chance as if they were even, yeah. So in answering you on how it got missed, I'm not sure. I wondered if I never really went into the compulsions, because I didn't realise they were compulsion. I would talk about my thoughts, but I wouldn't talk about my compulsions because I just thought that was normal.

Anthony Hartcher:

Fair enough. I mean, if you're not aware, you don't know and it really starts with that self-awareness and obviously, your husband was observing your behaviours and thinking, just doesn't seem right, there's something not right here and, and he got a little, you know, I guess, inkling that it was, you know, it could be OCD and, and were starting to share that with you and sowed the seed and then you started to look out for OCD and better understand it and, yeah, so.

Janaya Karloci:

Yeah, and I really did raise it a few times. And it was always just, like I remember they tested me for ADD at one point because the thoughts are all consuming, you know, you can't, you're thinking about, you're never present. You're thinking about something in the back of your head but, you know, again, it got me missed there, so.

Anthony Hartcher:

Yeah, so like, I, for me, what I'm hearing is it's really that fight, flight or freeze syndrome that's really locked in, it's like in overdrive and.

Janaya Karloci:

Overdrive, yeah, my poor little adrenals, I swear, they were just a wreck.

Anthony Hartcher:

Yeah, to the point where you really got so burnt out, you had that chronic fatigue, you couldn't get out of bed, like it was just, it just ran you down that much, you know.

Janaya Karloci:

It just ran me down that much and it was almost like whenever I had a happy moment because there's all these things, like I would be triggered by joy, so I look at OCD as a real bully. That's just how I've got to it in my life and it would, whenever I was playing with my daughter and she was giggling or something, I'd have the thought of, this could all be taken away. Thought, thought, compulsion, compulsion, like it was just relentless, basically, and then it just made me disappointed in trying to enjoy myself because it's almost like my OCD is better when I'm unhappy.

Anthony Hartcher:

So I was just thinking, like you said you've, you've traced this back to when you were 18. Was there a particular event that happened back then?

Janaya Karloci:

Not that I can remember. I mean, it was around the time that I had finished school, so, you know, that is a big transition, but no, I can't, and it started small. I say small, but you know, I would check the, the iron was off and I would check the, you know, anything that could cause fire and cause harm to others, making sure the doors were locked and things like that and you know, I would do that, and sometimes like I can remember in my early 20s, driving back to work because I was responsible for locking up, so I was like 45 minutes away, driving back to work at midnight, checking that the door was locked, like it was at the point at that time, I thought it was just a little bit of anxiousness, you know, but that's really not normal.

Anthony Hartcher:

Yeah. And it's sort of, for me, it probably goes back to those early years of life with the interactions with your parents and...

Janaya Karloci:

And I was always a worrier, you know, like it's, I'm very observant with my children because there is a genetic component. So I'm always like, don't worry about that, you know, like don't worry, because yeah, I can remember I was always a worrier. Like, I remember my grandfather used to call me, ah, Janaya, the worrier ward. So it's obviously, it was there and it just needed to be triggered. Yeah, wow. And then like I said, the habits, just habit after habit, and the more you do it without treatment, I guess that's, yeah, it makes it worse.

Anthony Hartcher:

It does, yeah. it's that reinforcing and it just becomes... Reinforcing the habit, exactly. As you said, it becomes normal. It's who you are. And you go, there's nothing wrong with me, it's just...

Janaya Karloci:

Normal and it takes you half an hour to leave the house and 45 minutes to do a 10-minute trip. And, yeah, and I think that's where I also, like, it got to the point where I was looking into having a stay at a psychiatric facility because, you know, I would be in the car with my girls and my older daughter who was about four at the time, would be like, mom, we've driven past this so many times and that's where I was like, I can't do this to them, I cannot do this to them because this is just insane.

Anthony Hartcher:

Yeah, wow. It's full-on, like just hearing your stories and how debilitating that is, like you don't have any control of yourself, you're possessed, you know, like you...

Janaya Karloci:

It was like I was possessed, yeah.

Anthony Hartcher:

Yeah, yeah. And I was just thinking back because obviously I could see, you know, you did really well at your studies. I was studying with you and, and it was probably that thing that, you know, look at all possibility scenarios and make sure all the I's are dotted and the T's are crossed and, and...

Janaya Karloci:

Honestly, Anthony, I can remember doing assignments and like having that at that last, you know, 10.30 at night before Sunday, oh no, I've got to change this and I've changed it all and I've been in at 11. Oh, honestly, I still have PTSD from putting in assignments. And then sometimes I'd write to a lecturer the next day saying, oh, I've submitted it, but I'm not happy with it. Can I redo it? And they're like, no, or sometimes they would give me extension, but it was just like, just leave it.

Anthony Hartcher:

Yeah, wow. I could only ever see your marks or not see your marks, but knew you were doing well. So it was, I was thinking, well, it certainly served you to a point with your studies. It certainly it made you excel.

Janaya Karloci:

It did. It was, I would have taken that, you know, I would have taken that away. Like, I think it goes back to, I think about this a lot, black and white thinkin. It's either, I'm going to either pass or fail. There was no in between. So if I didn't answer the question exactly right, I would fail. Not, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, I just couldn't deal with that ambiguity.

Anthony Hartcher:

So knowing what you know today around the condition, and as you said, you've got this expansive toolkit to work with now. It's not just a single tool. You've got this expansive toolkit. How would you go about treating Janaya? So just walk us through in terms of how you'd help someone with OCD today.

Janaya Karloci:

Okay. So like I said, you know, it's, the cause of OCD is unknown. The triggers are unknown. It's like most chronic conditions. It's thought to be a range of, a range of things, whether it's genetics or, you know, their brain, their brain chemistry, their nature, upbringing, trauma, you name it. It could be that. So it depends on the person. And what I love about naturopathy is you, you get to sit down with your clients and talk to them and go through their medical history, their personal history. You get that time to really go through all the things that could have impacted their life. And then from there, you would just kind of work through it basically. So, you know, for me, one of the biggest thing for the entire time was even before I knew I had OCD, it was, I had, it was worse. Pretty much from when I ovulated to when I got my period, it got gradually worse. And then when I had my period, it was such a relief and it was almost like I was normal again. So that was the first area I started working on was on my hormones. And, you know, it was so bad that when I was taking medication, I had to increase, double my medication, took like the last seven days and now I don't need to do that. So that's one thing that I've managed to sort out. But I guess it's like the main things I would look to work on with someone and I've done on myself, it's calming, nourishing and regulating the nervous system. And when we talk about the nervous system, it's like, it's maintaining the balance, not only within the brain and the spinal cord, but also the gut microbiome, because they're so linked. And that gut brain access, there's so much the microbes do with, you know, producing and signalling the neurotransmitters. So that's a really important part. I would say one of the most important parts. And then obviously supporting the HPA axis, hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis to restore regulation, because we are in fight and flight so much. It is just more than any, anyone I can imagine, you know what I mean? It's just constant, constant. And then regulating hormones, as I said, so you can do that a number of ways, whether it's, you know, sorting out their detoxification or elimination pathways, or even just using substances that modulate hormones in the body, regulating nutritional levels. So, you know, iron levels, they can be too high or too low, you know, either way it plays havoc. And another interesting one is cholesterol. So we, we all know cholesterol and the damage it can do when it's too high, but it can also be too low. And there's an association with low cholesterol and people with OCD. But also, I was looking at research recently and, you know, it's associated with aggressive behaviour. And it makes sense to me, but, you know, that's a factor. So that's another way. And then rebuilding self-confidence and through self-care. One of the biggest things I noticed towards my break, I say, was, you know, you are constantly doubting your thoughts and your actions every day. So imagine what that does to someone's self-confidence. It's just, you don't feel like you're worthy, almost. So that was another big area. Reducing inflammation, you know, if there's any digestive discomfort, looking into that further, you know, resolving it, whether it's leaky gut or constipation, dysbiosis that I talked about before. And then finally, just supporting mitochondria health, which I've heard you talk about before. So that's for your listeners, you know, mitochondria are the tiny little power plants in our cells and they generate energy for everything we do in the body. So, you know, when you're constantly stressed and expending all that extra energy, they just need a little bit of love and a little bit more support, really. I think that's like the main things you look at. That's a lot, you know what I mean? So you can see how all of that alongside therapy, alongside SSRIs, if they're needed, you know, it's going to improve your overall health and wellbeing. And so, you know, we hope, and it has in my case, improved my life, basically. My life now, before I knew I had OCD, I could never have imagined living the life I have now. I feel so free. I could never imagine running my own business. I don't even think I could imagine supporting people's health because I'd be too frightened, if that makes sense. So yeah, it's, I can't even explain, like, it's just unimaginable how much better my life is now.

Anthony Hartcher:

Yeah, wow. It's incredible how, how your life has just turned around. And in essence, it's really helped propel you forward now. Getting...

Janaya Karloci:

Completely. And I think even like this time last year, I was dabbling with the idea of like, oh, maybe I could, you know, start a naturopathy business. But then as I got into it, I was like, yeah, I can do this. And then I started getting more confident because I was like, oh my God, look how much it's helping me. I want to help other people. So, yeah.

Anthony Hartcher:

That's fantastic. I was just thinking when you mentioned hormones and how it was very much linked to the second part of the hormonal cycle. Is there a tendency for women to be more prone to OCD than men? Or there's...

Janaya Karloci:

Look, that's an interesting question. I think younger, like when you're younger, they tend to see more OCD in men, but I think they're finding women come out later. So a bit like me. So they may have had it for a long time, but they haven't realised they've had it. Yeah. And there's a lot also linked to, like, trigger. A big trigger can be giving birth. Yeah.

Anthony Hartcher:

Yeah, wow. Because I was just thinking that you've got that transition out of, you know, the, I guess, the womanhood, the perimenopause phase and with the, you know, rapid sharp inclines in estrogen and rapid drops in estrogen and this fluctuation of estrogen all over the place must cause that sort of coming out, so to speak, for for women that have been, you know, just managing it or just getting by for all those years. And then all of a sudden it's just becomes untolerable because they just don't have the estrogen there anymore or to the levels they used to, to deal with it.

Janaya Karloci:

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I think that's a big part of it. And I think the other part, especially with the, you know, the after giving birth, it's definitely the hormones, but it's also that you're responsible for something else now, you know, it's that whole. And like in my case, my children brought me joy. So that was a trigger.

Anthony Hartcher:

Yeah. Because you didn't want that taken away. You feared the loss.

Janaya Karloci:

Yeah. The more I had, the more I was scared of losing it. You know, maybe that's why it wasn't so bad when it was just me, because I can remember before I was, before I had children, I would worry a lot about my relationship, you know, that was the most important thing to me. So, yeah.

Anthony Hartcher:

But then that transformed into the kids, right?

Janaya Karloci:

Yeah, exactly. Or the whole family unit, you know, the whole family unit.

Anthony Hartcher:

Just got bigger. Yeah. Yes. More to worry about. Not just, not just hubby. It's got the kids as well. Exactly. And now I've got a second.

Janaya Karloci:

I remember saying to myself, like, you know, because I did travel quite a bit on my own when I was in my late twenties and it was just me. And I had no house to look after. I had nothing to look after, just have a good time. And it honestly was probably the most freeing part of my life because I didn't have a job. I didn't have, you know, all these things. So even then I can remember stressing out that I had left my passport somewhere or whatever, but, you know, it was a much easier part of my life.

Anthony Hartcher:

Yeah, I could see that. And I could see how it gets diagnosed later now that you've shared that sort of growing responsibilities, more, you know, that fearing that loss of more, you've got more to lose in a sense.

Janaya Karloci:

Yeah. I have to say like OCD presents so differently for so many people. There's all these themes. So, you know, what I'm talking about could be very different to someone else's experience. You know, a lot of people are worried about contamination and germs and other people, you know, they called it false memory OCD, where they can't remember things or I put myself in the harm because mine's around harm, but it can switch and it can change. And I did find as well, like when I went on the SSRIs, like I said to you, I found OCD to be a real bully. So the more I was resisting the compulsions, which is all part of the therapy, it was fighting back with a vengeance. So I would say for probably the first four months, it was two steps forward, one step back, and then five steps forward, 10 steps back. It was a real getting over and managing OCD was definitely one of the hardest things I've ever had to do, but it's been the best.

Anthony Hartcher:

And there's a saying that says that what we resist persists. And I think that's what you experienced during the SSRI journey.

Janaya Karloci:

Yeah. I think I needed them to resist. I cannot explain it. Like the, you know, it started with the easier thing. So it would be leaving the house without checking everything. And to me, that was really hard, but that was one of the easier things. So that's how you start. You start step by step, step by step. And then towards the end, it was like, you know, going over a speed bump or whatever and not driving back. And then it was not reviewing in the review era, you know, and then, yeah. So it was a long, long process, but it was well worth it.

Anthony Hartcher:

Yeah. A hundred percent. It's a journey and you've, you know, you've, you've embarked on that journey. You've conquered it and now you're out there saving others. Yeah. Oh, I hope yes. It's so great to have you on Janaya. How can the listeners best connect with you?

Janaya Karloci:

You can connect with me on my website, which is janayakarlocinaturopath.com.au. You can connect with me on Instagram and Facebook. If you have OCD, I would suggest following me on Instagram and looking at who I follow. I have a number of amazing advocates, people who provide free support on OCD, which I have to say also very much helped me during my journey, you know, to know that you're not the only one out there and they give some great tips, these guys. So that's it.

Anthony Hartcher:

Fantastic. I'll make sure that all those links you mentioned are in the show notes so that the listeners can go directly to your Facebook page or your Instagram page and, and follow the followers.

Janaya Karloci:

Yes. Yes. Please do. They're great. They're great.

Anthony Hartcher:

Awesome. So great to have you on Janaya, and really awesome to hear that you've recovered and now you're out helping others, which is fantastic. So keep up the great work. Keep, keep flying the flag in terms of supporting those in need around OCD and look forward to talking to you again in the future sometime.

Janaya Karloci:

Okay, thanks, Anthony. Thanks everyone.

Anthony Hartcher:

Thank you.

Janaya Karloci:

See you soon.

Anthony Hartcher:

Podcast Disclaimer: This podcast and any information, advice, opinions, or statements within it do not constitute medical, healthcare, or professional advice and are provided for general information purposes only. All care is taken in the preparation of the information in this podcast. Connected Wellness Proprietary Limited operating under the brand "me&my health up" does not make any representations or give any warranties about its accuracy, reliability, completeness, or suitability for any particular purpose. This podcast and any information, advice, opinions, or statements within it are not to be used as a substitute for professional, medical, psychological, psychiatric, or any other mental healthcare or healthcare in general. me&my health up recommends you seek the advice of a doctor or qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Inform your doctor of any changes that you make to your lifestyle and discuss these with your doctor. Do not disregard medical advice or delay visiting a medical professional because of something you hear in this podcast. This podcast has been carefully prepared on the basis of current information. Changes in circumstances after publication may affect the accuracy of this information. To the maximum extent permitted by the law,me&my health up disclaims any such representations or warranties to the completeness, accuracy, merchantability, or fitness for purpose of this podcast and will not be liable for any expenses, losses, damages incurred, indirect or consequential damages, or costs that may be incurred as a result of the information being inaccurate or incomplete in any way and for any reason. No part of this podcast can be reproduced, redistributed, published, copied, or duplicated in a form without prior permission of me&my health up.