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Embracing the Benefits of Successfully Doing Plant-Based Diet

• me&my wellness / Camilla Brinkworth • Season 1 • Episode 183

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Are you curious about the true potential of a plant-based diet? Wondering if you can meet all your nutritional needs without animal products? 

In this enlightening episode of me&my health up, host Anthony Hartcher is joined by the passionate holistic health advocate Camilla Brinkworth to unravel the intricacies and benefits of adopting a plant-based diet.  

Camilla, with her extensive knowledge and personal experience, sheds light on common myths and shares invaluable insights into how a plant-based diet can be both nutritionally complete and satisfying. 

Listeners will be captivated as Camilla explains the nuances of iron and calcium intake from plant sources, highlighting how to maximise absorption and debunking the myth that plant-based diets are deficient in these crucial nutrients.  

She also delves into the importance of fibre, not just for digestive health but as a cornerstone of a plant-rich diet, and discusses managing conditions like Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO) within the context of plant-based eating. 

Moreover, this episode isn't just about what to eat but how to eat. Camilla emphasises the significance of portion sizes, the diversity of plant foods, and the role of healthy fats, including the groundbreaking AhiFlower oil. She also touches on the environmental and ethical implications of choosing a plant-based lifestyle. 

So, are you ready to embrace the plant-based journey and reap its myriad benefits? Tune in to find out how to make plant-based eating work for you, one delicious and nutritious meal at a time. 

 

About Camilla Brinkwood:  

  • Nutrition Scholar: Master's in Human Nutrition from Deakin University. 
  • Holistic Health Pro: Qualified naturopath, nutritionist, and herbalist. 
  • Plant-Based Passion: Avid reader and advocate for plant-based diets. 
  • Ahiflower Enthusiast: Introduced this plant-based omega oil to Australasia. 
  • PhytoLove Leader: Co-founder & CEO, pioneering plant-based wellness solutions. 

 

Connect with Camilla Brinkwood:  

Personal website: https://camillaclare.com/
Phytolove website: https://phytolove.com.au/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camillaclarenaturopathy
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/camillaclarenaturopathy/
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@phytolovelife 

 

About me&my health up & Anthony Hartcher 

me&my health up seeks to enhance and enlighten the well-being of others. Host Antho

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Any information, advice, opinions or statements within it do not constitute medical, health care or other professional advice, and are provided for general information purposes only. All care is taken in the preparation of the information in this Podcast. [Connected Wellness Pty Ltd] operating under the brand of “me&my health up”..click here for more

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Anthony Hartcher:

Welcome back on the me&my health up podcast. I'm your host Anthony Hartcher, a clinical nutritionist and lifestyle medicine specialist. The purpose of this podcast is to enhance and enlighten your well being. And today, we have a plant based naturopath, Camilla Brinkworth, and she shares her insights on her journey on how she went from having arthritis in her early 20s. To totally reversing it and healing it using plant based diets. She shares all her learnings in this episode of where she went wrong, and how she's corrected it and how she does it so successfully today. So join me in this fantastic episode with Camilla Brinkworth. Welcome on the me&my health up podcast. How are you? Camilla Brinkworth.

Camilla Brinkworth:

I'm great. I'm in Ubud, so I'm extremely hot. Aside from that, I'm really good. Thank you.

Anthony Hartcher:

Oh, fantastic. In terms of helping the listeners understand your location, do you want to share a bit more around your location?

Camilla Brinkworth:

Yes. So I'm currently and really in the jungle I would say about 15 minutes outside of Ubud in Bali. And it's gloriously warm here today, which I don't think it is. In Sydney. I hear the temperature dropped again. Is that right?

Anthony Hartcher:

It is, Yeah. So we've been relieved. We had a

Camilla Brinkworth:

Yeah, I heard. sweltering week.

Anthony Hartcher:

This weekend, it's dropped in. It's really nice, actually explicit.

Camilla Brinkworth:

Lovely!

Anthony Hartcher:

Yeah. So Camilla, please share with the listeners how you've arrived at what you're doing today.

Camilla Brinkworth:

Yeah, and so I'm a plant based naturopath and nutritionist. And my journey has been a really, really long journey to get here. Essentially, I had really terrible health. When I was growing up, I experienced a huge amount of anxiety, a huge amount of depression. I developed arthritis at 19 years old, which was pretty horrendous. And by age 24, there were points at which my arthritis was so bad that I couldn't even cross my fingers to get and hold a pen holder mascara brush at that age, which wasn't, wasn't great. I was in a lot of pain. And I always had an interest in healthy food. But I hadn't been raised in that climate at all. I've been brought up on a diet of things like fried chicken and microwave chips. And the only vegetables to be seen were you know, one serving of something that had been boiled or microwave to death, and thus had pretty much no nutritional value. And so I wasn't set up with the kind of diet that I have now. But I was always intrigued by it. It was almost by fate that when I got a dog, I connected to animals in a really different way. And I went vegetarian. And what I noticed from that was that my pain, my arthritic pain reduced by about 50% At that point, which was kind of amazing. And I really saw that connection between the foods that we're putting in our bodies and how our bodies feel. And then a few years later, when I learnt more about the environmental implications of animal products, I decided to go vegan. And I accidentally reversed my arthritis in about two weeks after going vegan. I woke up one morning, and I had no pain in my neck for almost the first time in 10 years, which was incredible. But I've got to say that part of the reason I do what I do, which is help people thrive on a plant based diet is because I didn't get it right from the beginning. And there were actually on that very, very long journey. There were many points in time where I got it really wrong. And I thought it was a problem with a vegan diet. But actually, it was a problem with the way that I was eating. So one of my missions now is to help people who do want to be vegetarian, or they do want to be vegan for whatever reason, and to help them thrive. Because that's not information that a lot of us gets. And there are so many awful things on the internet telling us to eat 40 bananas a day or to eat nothing but orange juice all day or just the plate of salad with a you know, one tomato on and none of that is going to lead to optimal long term health. So that's what I'm here for.

Anthony Hartcher:

Wow, what a story in terms of you know, turning around your health and going about changing things and then seeing the changes in your body. So in terms of how you went about that change because I know we studied together in the naturopathy did you start the diet pre study or during your studies had

Camilla Brinkworth:

so I started so the movement from to vegetarian was long before studying or not long before but a few years before studying that I even at that point really wasn't getting it right at all. I was eating a very, very limited diet. but that really wasn't, you know, my pain had reduced. There were obviously some benefits. But there were other things that just really weren't working my Iron was clearly low. I was really fatigued, I was getting sick a lot. And yes, it was, it really wasn't, I wasn't doing vegetarian particularly well. And then it took me maybe a year into studying during my naturopathy degree, and also reading a huge amount of plant based health material from you know, plant based doctors who've been plant based themselves for decades, and really learning the ins and outs spending hundreds, if not 1000s of hours researching it, and eventually got it right. And my health has been fantastic as a result of that.

Anthony Hartcher:

Fantastic. And you're still vegan?

Camilla Brinkworth:

I am Yes, it's been almost eight years now. So

Anthony Hartcher:

Wow

Camilla Brinkworth:

Yeah, my hair hasn't fallen out. I have plenty of energy. And my mood is fantastic. And you know, I'm a human being. So I have my ups and downs, I get sick from time to time, sometimes I get sad because I'm human. So it's not as though like I walk around in a cloud all day just, you know, smiling and impervious to anything. But in general, my standard of health has done nothing but benefit from this way of living for me.

Anthony Hartcher:

Working with your clients, wherever you found they typically go wrong. So where are the common areas that people when they start a plant based diet that they typically don't go about it the right way?

Camilla Brinkworth:

There are so many and you know, most of us aren't brought up? Well actually, regardless of whether we're vegetarian, vegan or omnivorous, most of us aren't brought up knowing how to eat a healthy balanced diet. But even less so are we taught how to eat a healthy plant based diet. So things that I often see, some people still unfortunately don't know that the 12 supplementation is a non negotiable unless you've been told by your health care providers that you absolutely don't need to based on your very recently 12 bloodwork, I would say that often people aren't eating enough of the right types of foods. So you know, sometimes I see people who eating nothing but a big plate of vegetables, they're missing out on key nutrients there. Often people are even eating all the right kinds of food, but they're actually eating it in such minuscule quantities that it's really not giving them anything that they need. I had one client and when I ran through her diet, it sounded as though she was eating what we would consider a pretty flawless plant based diet. But then once I broke down the quantities of those foods, there was no way that they were meeting her nutritional requirements at all those would be some key ones, I would say.

Anthony Hartcher:

Okay, so certainly the person that's having a plate of vegetables is probably not meeting their protein requirements.

Camilla Brinkworth:

No, so the foods that we really want to emphasise on a plant based diet that are key food groups are things like legumes, whole grains, vegetables, fruits, nuts and seeds. And most of our protein, or a larger protein contribution is coming from foods like legumes and whole grains, soy foods like tofu, tempeh, fantastic sources. If somebody is you know an athlete or working out a lot, then they may benefit from a plant based protein powder. But in my own situation, I haven't used one for years. And I track what I'm eating with chronometer once a year, just for three days. And the last time I did that was maybe two weeks ago, and I hit absolutely every macronutrient micronutrient bar vitamin E, I think I was about 30% lower than I should have been on that but everything else was perfect. And my protein is, you know, one and a half times what I require for my body weight and my level of activity. So you absolutely can get it right. As long as you're using a B12 supplement and as long as you're eating the right kind of foods in the right balance. And that's how I like to help people.

Anthony Hartcher:

And in terms of I was just thinking you mentioned like the legumes and the whole grains and all those

Camilla Brinkworth:

Yeah,

Anthony Hartcher:

Yeah, tempe and tofu as good protein sources. What is a good breakfast for someone starting out on a plant based diet.

Camilla Brinkworth:

So my favorite breakfast is I like to start the day with overnight oats which I mixed in with so I use either steel pot or rolled oats I've been using rolls recently and I actually soak them in water not even not melt them if you wanted a soy milk. If you wanted a bit of a calcium boost on that meal you could use something like an unsweetened soy milk that had calcium fortified I don't use any calcium fortified products because I so many dark green leafy vegetables that I really don't need to. So yes, overnight oats with whatever liquid you want to use. I mix some Caribbean I then top that with mixed berries. So that's probably my most boring straightforward meal of day, and I'll let you into a secret. I actually hate cooking. So I love preparing healthy food, but my cooking skills are horrific. And so essentially what I do for my lunches and my dinner is I steam things like sweet potato, huge amounts of greens, cruciferous vegetables and things like broccoli or cauliflower and like sweet corn, basically as many different colorful veggies as possible. So I'll steam those. And then I'll also pan fry and I try not to use cooking oils or really, really minimum really minimum use of oils, but I will pan fry some tempeh a big portion of mushrooms because they are such a good source of B vitamins. And I'll pan fried, some garlic chop garlic chop onion, I missing something. That's kind of you know, my basic lunches and dinners are these huge plates of vegetables with Yeah, tempeh and mushrooms

Anthony Hartcher:

sounds delicious. That's making me a bit hungry.

Camilla Brinkworth:

Making me hungry? Actually.

Anthony Hartcher:

That's probably your lunchtime is it?

Camilla Brinkworth:

And I had a bit of a nightmare prior to this, my gas on my stove just suddenly stopped working so.

Anthony Hartcher:

So you haven't had Lunch?

Camilla Brinkworth:

I haven't I have haven't had what I would usually have.

Anthony Hartcher:

Okay, you mentioned on your journey that you struggled to get enough iron. So I'm really keen to explore the topic of iron.

Camilla Brinkworth:

I should also say with my journey, when I first when I was actually struggling with iron that was actually when I was vegetarian as opposed to when I was vegan. When I was vegetarian, I did what a lot of people who are vegetarian do and I just cut out meat. And I added in cheese and eggs basically, instead of meat. So I actually wasn't bringing lots of plant foods into my diet at all. At that point, I was actually still eating a pretty heavy animal protein diet. It just wasn't me. And yeah, my iron levels really suffered. I definitely was not feeling very well didn't look very well in terms of iron. So the interesting thing is that there are studies showing that vegans in general don't seem to have higher levels of iron deficiency than omnivores, even though there's that really, really strong mental, you know, connotation between iron deficient vegans etc. Another interesting thing is that we tend to get more iron as a milligram amount than non vegans and non vegetarians. But that's iron, as you know, that we get from our diet is non heme iron, which means that it's less readily uptaken by the body. But there are factors that we can do to enhance that uptake. So vitamin C with our foods. In fact, garlic has been shown to increase it apple cider vinegar before our foods, making sure that our digestion is in a really healthy state, and definitely keeping tea and coffee away from our foods as well. That's a huge one

Anthony Hartcher:

Fantastic tips there. You mentioned calcium earlier and you said you don't have an issue with calcium, lots of dark leafy green vegetables. But generally, you hear that there is a concern around calcium with plant based diets. So yes,

Camilla Brinkworth:

Yeah, of course. So my chronometer reading says that I get about two, I think there's about two grams of calcium a day so that's over double what, you know, a, what we're told we're supposed to have and what you get three glasses of milk, etc, etc. I don't I've got to say because of its Oxalic content, I don't eat a lot of spinach, I keep that really, really low. But what I do eat a lot of his kale and kale is a fan and other dark green leafy vegetables as well. And those are very, very good sources of calcium. I don't eat the quantities of dark green movies that most people are putting on their plate. So again, like my clients who are eating the perfect diet on paper, you know, just having a sprinkle of this food, then sprinkle of that I'm talking big portions of green. And that's something that's really recommended by the heart. Very the best doctors, particularly the ones who have been working with cardiovascular disease, reversing heart disease and showing that clinically, you know, the improvement of arterial blood flow they are recommending that with every meal actually we have a big portion of dark green so I do that with both my lunch and dinner and I'm really easily meeting my calcium that way other foods they will be nuts and seeds. Tahini is a really good source. There are small amounts of calcium in in everything though, I mean, I think even oranges have about 50 milligrams of calcium or something. So over the course of the day definitely can add up to

Anthony Hartcher:

How many cups would you have of the kale on any given meal?

Camilla Brinkworth:

Do you want to see ?

Anthony Hartcher:

Yeah, I'd love to see because there is videos. So let's just get right to her fridge to get her Kale to show how much she has in a meal. So those that are listening, we'll do our best to explain it. But those watching YouTube will actually see how much Kale that Camilla eats. Oh, wow.

Camilla Brinkworth:

So this is, these are my greens that sit in my fridge, I was about to prepare lunch. So this is actually quite a good thing. So I was about to prepare lunch until the stove broke. This is how much mushrooms I was going to eat for lunch and dinner.

Anthony Hartcher:

Wow,

Camilla Brinkworth:

This is so these are mixed season eight different types of greens, and four different types of Kale here. This is the delight of living in Bali, I get this organically delivered this organic delivery to my house and banana leaves, which is amazing. And I would get through those over to I get deliveries every two to three days, a lot of food. And that is one thing people should know if you're on a plant based diet, we're looking at very different portions of foods to what we're used to eating with omnivorous foods. So I could eat foods like that. And if I just did that, I would be really under in calories, I wouldn't be feeling well, at all, we need to eat much, much larger portions of these kinds of calorie, these calorie dilute foods, but that are so micronutrient rich, the calories really are coming from things like sweet potato foods like avocado, from nuts, from seeds from the tempeh, etc, etc.

Anthony Hartcher:

Well, and for the listeners in terms of what Camilla was showing, she was showing a banana leaf with all these mushrooms inside the banana leaf and be at least a full plate. Like if you think of a dinner plate would that be about the right size Camilla

Camilla Brinkworth:

So once I've cooked my food, I'd say with a dinner plate. A good at least a third of that. Two half of that is a very packed dark green leafy cheese. And mushrooms. I would say I actually put some pictures on my Instagram on what my plates look like. So you can always head over there to havea look.

Anthony Hartcher:

Okay, well, I'll include the Instagram link in the show notes. So you can check out Camilla's Instagram and see what our plates look like how much how much green veg and how much mushrooms and the portions on each dinner plate

Camilla Brinkworth:

I've had, I've had people who horror you know, I've had teachers this endeavor where I used to study my natural people are horrified by my portions of food. But you know, I'm very much within the healthy weight range. And I have no issues with, you know, no concerns about watching calories and haven't needed to and have been eating this way for a really long time. So

Anthony Hartcher:

I was thinking with all that far, but you wouldn't need to be concerned about moving your bowels, right?

Camilla Brinkworth:

Definitely not. So that's another thing. When I look at my free nutrient intake, micro and macro nutrient intake, not only do I hit pretty much everything very, very well. But I get about 70 grams of fiber a day. And I know men who were eating this way because they're eating, you know, higher calories. And you know, I've got a few friends who are vegan athletes, and they're getting more like 100 grams of fiber, a very good friend to my digestive system.

Anthony Hartcher:

Absolutely. So that be at least double what you're having is at least double the recommended daily intake.

Camilla Brinkworth:

Yeah Yeah, yeah, and most of the plant based doctors would say that the recommended daily intakes are really very, very low. And most people really aren't meeting them at all. I have to add at this point, that one thing that I see vegans with in clinic most often, and this is I think this is really interesting, is SIBO, they simply aren't able to tolerate these kinds of foods that I'm eating these really high fiber foods until we treat the SIBOs. So I will work with them in a way that's you know, completely respectful to their plant based or vegan diet, but we will treat it they will get much better and then they'll be able to manage these foods again. And you know, it's not the vegan diet that's caused the SIBO. But those really healthy High fiber foods actually will exacerbate it. And that's I in my mind. That's why people often feel much better when they do suddenly eat a piece of fish and they're like, Oh, I'm fine. But the fish isn't coming with fiber, whereas these foods are in

Anthony Hartcher:

In terms of SIBO please explain that for the listeners just so that

Camilla Brinkworth:

Yeah, so small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, which is quite a predominant reason behind IBS symptoms and it can manifest in constipation or it can manifest in diarrhea. It's related to a whole host of other systemic conditions too. And it's something that you test I know gastroenterologist have their own ways of testing but in terms of functional medicine or nutritionist or naturopath we can ascertain that with a assess that with a breath test, which is quite simple, but not particularly pleasant for people. And I do find that where people come to me with SIBO. And it's a very straightforward SIBO case, when we do make that dietary modification to keep the fiber really, really low, whilst treating it, they feel so much better so quickly. But so much of the evidence for long term health points to these high fiber, predominantly plant based foods. So in my mind, the most important thing is really to treat them so that they're able to tolerate the fruits, the veggies and the other plant beautiful plant needs to

Anthony Hartcher:

I just getting back to the quantities, I just want to practice round that out hills. Because I'm thinking, Do you have more than three meals a day, or you have just three, three big meals?

Camilla Brinkworth:

So my breakfast, I'd say it's quite normal. Although to be fair, I did have some, you know, as well as a pretty decently sized bowl of oats. I had a couple of passion fruits and a mango before I will usually have some fruit as well. But no, I just have three meals if I would. I don't do a lot of exercise. To be honest, I do move my body every day. But I'm definitely not an athlete by any stretch of the imagination. But if I were then I'd probably, you know, maybe be eating for meals, or protein shake or something like that.

Anthony Hartcher:

Yeah, no, I just really wanted to get into context for the listeners. Because when you showed me you know, what you consume over a two or three day period. I'm thinking, you know, if you just look at just lunches and dinners that you do have quite a sizable amount.

Camilla Brinkworth:

Oh, I do, absolutely. Yeah. And the interesting thing is, I mean, the foods that I showed you with a very calorie dilute ones. But you know, on top of those and you know, hefty portions of these dark greens, hefty portions of these mushrooms, I've also got my sweet potato, my tempeh whatever other vegetables I try and you know, mix it up, because we know that for gut health, one of the best things is having as large a diversity of unprocessed plant foods as possible.

Anthony Hartcher:

Do you work with athletes on a plant based diet,

Camilla Brinkworth:

I haven't worked with athletes, I've worked with people with very active lifestyles. And generally, that just requires being, you know, bringing in more things like protein, protein powders, even those been sorry, they've been pastors that have about, some of them have an obscene amount of protein per serving, it's like 30 grams of protein. But I have very close friends who are a vegan bodybuilders, vegan athletes. So I've known a lot of these people, but they haven't needed my services, they've been doing very well.

Anthony Hartcher:

And in terms of other areas that you commonly see people trip up in so you've mentioned some really good areas in terms of not eating, you know, poor quantities of everything to make sure that they meet the daily recommended intakes are those particularly other particular macros or micros that you commonly see where people are getting enough of,

Camilla Brinkworth:

I would say calcium, if they're not eating enough, yet, particularly dark green leafy vegetables, two of the things that I bring in to people as long as they can tolerate them, and as long as they're happy to include them. Two of the things that I think are really, really key when I've looked for myself, that my chronometer and seeing where am I getting my B vitamins from? Where am I getting, you know, everything from calcium being one of them. dark green leafy is and mushrooms, mushrooms, in terms of B vitamins, just such a winner, I know that we get you know, you can meet your B vitamin needs on a plant based diet without them, but they do make things much, much easier.

Anthony Hartcher:

And in terms of the fats. So we've spoken a lot about the I guess the carbohydrates, the proteins, but we haven't really explored the fats. So let's, let's dive into that. How do you go back?

Camilla Brinkworth:

Okay, so you can get a very varied amount of fat on a plant based diet. So the healthiest sources would be things like avocados, nuts and seeds. They're really really high in that. My preference in terms of meeting my omega needs is a new ingredient called arche flower, but people often use flax seeds, chia seeds, hemp seeds are actually higher in Omega six than omega three, which is the same as Walmart. So even though those foods are really healthy, I wouldn't be relying upon them as your sources of Omega three. I also have a bit of a passion for a fruit that some listeners probably haven't heard of, which is Durian. And that's got a nice and nice fat content too. So that's actually my favorite snack to be honest, but even something like tahini, you could put some if actually, if you do that breakfast that I told you about, and you mix in some tahini, a big tablespoon of tahini with the carrot oh my gosh, delicious. It's like a creamy chocolate dessert for breakfast.

Anthony Hartcher:

And tahini is really high in calcium. So

Camilla Brinkworth:

Uhuh! Yeah

Anthony Hartcher:

Certainly get your calcium up. And you mentioned the AhiFlower.

Camilla Brinkworth:

AhiFlower. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's a new Omega ingredient that I'm really really passionate about. It's essentially a complete Omega three, six and nine. But it's giving you more advanced Omega three metabolites than flax or chia it's giving you something called stearidonic acid. And that's something that we find in hemp seeds, but actually Ahi Flower is providing that at about 10 times the amount as hemp, which is pretty incredible. Whilst it's also providing something called GLA, which is what we find anything primrose oil. So in my mind, it's the best balance most complete, broader spectrum Omega source that we have

Anthony Hartcher:

The AhiFlower, right?

Camilla Brinkworth:

AhiFlower, yes, Ahi is as in tuna, because the concept of it is that it could be a fish replacement because it converts to EPA for which is one of the long chain Omega three metabolites four times more up to four times more effectively than flax. So are he is Ahi tuna and flower is the plant that it's come from.

Anthony Hartcher:

Okay, so in terms of the the plant the flower, you do just add it to your stir fries or your salads, or how do you consume it.

Camilla Brinkworth:

So it's a crest seed oil. So it comes Yes, it's not actually a flower. It's a it's a plant with a beautiful flower. And it's regeneratively grown really, really sustainable. And essentially those seeds, the oils extract, and you can take that in a capsule at this point in time, but in the future, it will become available as a food as well, which is really exciting.

Anthony Hartcher:

So it's a supplement that's available on them.

Camilla Brinkworth:

Yeah, it's not available until November in Australia, it only became approved as a new ingredient in July 2023. And it will be available in Australia in November. But we do hope that in a couple of years time when people are more familiar with it as an ingredient that it will make it down to being a food as well just to make it so much more accessible for everybody.

Anthony Hartcher:

Absolutely. First time I've heard about it was by you so

Camilla Brinkworth:

yeah,

Anthony Hartcher:

never heard of it.

Camilla Brinkworth:

That's that's the thing. Most people haven't it's you know, it's been around in America and Europe for a while we were the first people to actually bring it through to be approved as a novel ingredients. So that's why we're so passionate about it.

Anthony Hartcher:

Oh, fantastic. And how can the listeners best connect with you Camilla.

Camilla Brinkworth:

So my Instagram is probably the best way to find me, which ishttps://www.instagram.com/camillaclarenaturopathy/?hl=en. And I also have a new podcast and YouTube myself, which is the phytolove podcast or the https://www.youtube.com/@phytolovelife channel on YouTube.

Anthony Hartcher:

Fantastic. And for the listeners. I'll include those links in the show notes. And I'd really like to say thank you, Camilla for coming on the show and sharing all your knowledge around plant based eating and how to do that successfully. I really appreciate you I guess in during the sweltering heat over there.

Camilla Brinkworth:

I managed to get through this without passing out so thank you so much for your your time and your questions Anthony

Anthony Hartcher:

Oh, you're welcome thank you

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