Anthony Hartcher 0:00
Weight gain, night sweats, mood swings, hot flashes, not for me and thank God for that. I feel for those who experienced such symptoms of perimenopause. In this episode of me and my health up, we'll be exploring perimenopause and helping you or a loved one navigate through it in the best possible way. I'm your host Anthony Hartcher. A healthy man according to my kids, aka clinical nutritionist and lifestyle medicine specialist. The purpose of this podcast is to enhance and enlighten your well being and today we'll be chatting with a naturopath and natural menopause expert Brenda Rogers on perimenopause, aka pre-menopause.
This is part one of a two-part series on empowering women naturally through menopause. Brenda Rogers is a natural medicine expert specializing in menopause. She's passionate about working with the new generation of women who are creating an empowering new paradigm for what midlife looks like, women as powerful ambassadors for the wisdom of the middle age. Brenda is a clinical naturopath, certified life coach, Certified Clinical aromatherapist, yoga, meditation, and spiritual teacher. Brenda helps women who want to trance transition gracefully, through menopause, and into the best years of their life to become the steady, calm woman who doesn't get riled by anything and celebrates all of who she is. So welcome, Brenda, how are you today?
Brenda Rogers 1:47
Oh, gosh, I'm fantastic. Thank you, Anthony. Anna, thank you for having me talk about this really, really amazing topic.
Anthony Hartcher 1:57
Yeah, it's such an important topic. I was doing consults prior to this podcast and the questions were around perimenopause. And I said I'm about to interview an expert. So just hold on a minute, it said that we will answer all those questions and more. So I'm going to share this episode with the clients. So first, before we start always like hearing, I guess your story as to how you have arrived at what you're doing today.
Brenda Rogers 2:29
Well, that's a long story. But the shortened version, I suppose. In my early 20s, I was looking for a career, what am I do with my life, and I discovered naturopathy and moved to Sydney to study with the natural care college way back then and immediately, once I graduated, started working for Blackmores, and had a great time there just, you know, learning so much about well being and then through my career, I had these times of working in corporate health companies, and dabbling in my own practice.
So it wasn't really ready to, to practice full time I wanted to travel and do all those live things and really, in the last few years, I've gone back to it completely, given up the corporate jobs, which you know, that's a whole other story and, and then decided to niche with the, you know, the 45 to 55 year old women's health, which of course includes menopause and perimenopause. So, and I absolutely love it, I discovered so much and, you know, it relates back to my yoga philosophy, to herbal medicine, grassroots, Earth medicine philosophies, to hurt, you know, nutrition and what we do in the kitchen. It's just, it's just, yeah, captures it all for me. So, absolutely love it.
Anthony Hartcher 4:10
I remember Steve Jobs saying and one of his speeches that he just followed his heart throughout his career. And when he looked back, he could see the dots joining together as to how he's arrived at what he ended up doing. But you know, at the time, he didn't know, you know, he didn't know where to end up, and he just really follow where his heart took him and it sounds like you're very much done that and the heart, you know, taking you to this special space where you're, you know, you're specializing in, you're an expert, and you really love what you're doing.
Brenda Rogers 4:44
Well, I have struggled a little bit with that word expert, but I figured, well, I've got expertise so that makes me an expert. But I think it's actually a good point that you make Anthony because, you know, I'm in my mid 50s now and I look back similarly and think it didn't make sense in my 20s. It didn't make sense in my 30s. But it really, really makes sense now in my 50s. But back then we, you know, we, it was like, oh, I'm not doing the right thing I, you know, I'm not, you know, I'm not I don't have what other people have and what's beautiful about being in your 50s Is it is a, in some of my research, they say that you're really an adult at 50.
That all of the lead up to that you're not really an adult and I'm starting to get what that means. But it's also a beautiful time for women as well, particularly, that everything comes together, and we start to have this capacity for real leadership, for real contribution, for real, you know, to create something that really brings us joy and that's not the common narrative out there. The common narrative out there is that menopause equals decay and decline.
In fact, I read a research paper, several of them analyzing the medical perspective on menopause, and these words decline and decay came up consistently and I'm thinking, well, that's not my experience but 10 years ago, if you'd asked me about it, I probably would have thought, yeah, that's about right. It's just all bad, all debt bad all downhill from, you know, 50 or whatever and, you know, I'm really excited about rewriting that narrative for women so that they get the opportunities, they get how powerful and empowering and wonderful it can be eventually, eventually, perimenopause is not fun, though.
Anthony Hartcher 6:52
So I yeah, I'm really keen to rewrite that narrative on today's podcast, and certainly, the bunks, the miss out there, and the parent that then shift that paradigm that's currently in society about perimenopause and you know, you see it for what it is in terms of yes, it's a challenge to move through and navigate your way through and you've obviously, over with your experience, come up with a great path that really helps and serves women through those tough years.
So that they get out at the other end unscathed and really empowered and at the peak of their life. So we're really keen to, let's start with what is perimenopause? Because I've mentioned that a lot of times you have, and I just want to get the definition on the table and be clear as to what it is.
Brenda Rogers 7:46
Yeah. Well, when you hear the word, let's pull it apart when you hear the word peri, think of a periscope, which is kind of looking around. So it carries the word around and some of the authors and mentors and experts that I follow say that it's for two to 10 years prior to the cessation of the period and some will say it includes that says that cessation of the period and maybe a year post the cessation of the period, so it doesn't really matter.
It's primarily that bumpy ride of up to 10 years. We were told that the hormones are fluctuating quite a lot. There's a gradual and then quite a significant decline in estrogen and progesterone, progesterone particularly, and the symptoms associated with that. So menopause to do to distinguish between that and perimenopause is one year after your last period. So that's one day in your life is menopause. Mind you, when you read about menopause or we're talking about menopause, most people mean perimenopause their whole time. And then post menopause is you know, all the way up to death really.
Another word that we might use is pre-menopause, but basically, a for a 20 year old women is pre-menopause. So it's not specific enough and then you've got early menopause and early menopause is if you're younger than 40 and you're in menopause prior to 40 and that's usually sort of medical conditions, surgical removal, cancer treatment and that kind of thing. So perimenopause is just those few years, a few bumpy years leading up to the end of the period.
Anthony Hartcher 10:05
And it's something that's quite difficult for medicine to diagnose? It's a bit of grey in the different, like in the medical diagnosis, because I certainly the client I saw today was saying, you know, she's feeling all the symptoms and experiencing, you know what she feels like she's going through some hormonal change, yet, you know, the doctors are saying, No, you're not.
Brenda Rogers 10:29
I had plenty of people like that too, and who are you gonna believe? I mean, we, we operate in a medical system that is, and I'm gonna use the word patriarchal, even though that's a loaded word, but it is, you know, even research is done on male rats, Anthony, because female rats have a cycle, which makes them unpredictable and we want to eliminate unpredictability in research. So in the blood, you can't there are no blood tests for diagnosing menopause, you know, there's, you could do your hormones and they could say, you could look at FSH and LH and estrogen and estradiol on those kinds of things in it, it will tell you, but maybe tomorrow, it's different.
Maybe the end of the month is different, maybe on the full moon, it's different. So there isn't a definitive test for perimenopause or menopause and that's because it doesn't fit very well into our current sort of construct, you know, we have a peak fertility time in our lives, and it's probably 18. If you're, and then there's this, there's this sort of gradual decline, and then and then more rapid decline of reproductive ability in the 40s and so, you know, when you can test at any time, along that pathway, until the periods actually finish, you're only getting a snapshot, you're only getting a sense of it.
I totally believe a woman, if she says, you know, and the typical symptoms are hot flashes and night sweats. There are a million others. But, you know, waking up in the middle of the night, see, the problem is we've associated tons and tons of symptoms with menopause and in many of the menopause isn't, isn't or hormone fluctuations isn't actually the culprit. So menopause is much worse, it looks much worse than it actually is and, you know, that's getting more complex into a discussion about symptoms, and I don't know if you want to go the Anthony, but certainly, I, I like to teach women to trust their own bodies. And, you know, it's not like ignoring the blood tests. But if you feel like there are hormones fluctuating, then those hormones fluctuate. That's my, my philosophy.
Anthony Hartcher 13:20
And I'm 100% with you, Brenda. I believe though, the woman in front of me and, and the patient knows or the, you know, the client knows best that they know themselves. They have that intuitive instinct, and yeah, I'm certainly with you. We need to listen to them and help them with what they're experiencing. So let's get into that side of helping them. How do you help women navigate through this perimenopause period?
Brenda Rogers 13:52
Well, a couple of things. First of all, there's everybody's menopause. Every woman's menopause is an endocrine challenge and I know you know what I mean by that. What I mean, let me just explain. Endocrine System is the hormone system and it's not just our reproductive hormones. It also includes our stress hormones, thyroid hormones, and the pituitary and hypothalamus which regulate all of that stuff. But for every woman, menopause is or perimenopause is an endocrine challenge. Every woman, no one gets through it unscathed. No one and you're not meant to it's meant to change you. It's a rite of passage.
You're going from being a reproductive woman through this, you know, transition into a wild woman it's actually your it's actually a wild time your 50s and eventually, a wise woman so you kind of a wild wise woman in your 50s, but you're no longer reproductive and there's the loss associated with that. There's grief associated that with that there's, you know, all the things I haven't done comes up, you know, there's the babies I didn't have maybe haven't had any. That was the case for me. I had, I had had a miscarriage, I had been wanting to fall pregnant, and I had to deal with all of that, that grief that it was never going to happen. And so you're not meant to get through it unscathed.
It's meant to change you, it's meant to squeeze you into this new woman that you're becoming. So navigating, was really dependent on the individual woman, some women go through it more easily than others and there's, there are about 100 Different factors as to why that happens. It has a lot to do with how well you've taken care of yourself up to that point. So I like to have this conversation with women who are 35 and 40 because if you can get your health really sorted out before you hit 45, or 49, you're in a much better position to ride that endocrine roller coaster better than someone else who's got insulin problems, got blood sugar problems.
So who's got you know who's stressed out their adrenals are every bit of adrenal juice has been squeezed out and used up you know, because those women are not going to sleep, they're going to put weight on they're going to get anxious, they're going to struggle. So supporting adrenal health is one of the most critical parts of preparation, and ongoing maintenance for perimenopause and that will minimize symptoms. The other thing is liver health. So, you know, if you think about hot flashes, for example, and night sweats or hot flashes in particular
There's not a lot that we know about hot flashes, we know that it's called, it's called a vasomotor symptom, which I think technically means it's not really a hormonal symptom. It's more than the nervous system, vascular blood, blood circulation, temperature, brain thing going on. But hot flashes, one of the most common symptoms and they're often an early sign that you're, you're in perimenopause there are there are quite a lot of reasons why you can have hot flashes, and often it's a compounding thing.
But liver health is is absolutely critical. So the liver is what detoxifies hormones out of our body, especially Zeno estrogen or fake estrogens. The ones that we eat, the ones that we take in the pill, the ones that are in our food, food, you know, like hormones are in fish and in animals that we eat and, and there are hormone-mimicking chemicals in the food chain as well. So that it's the liver that has to process all of that, to help us stay normal and natural, and if the liver is sluggish or unhappy, what I call an unhappy liver, struggling, then we'll have this toxic load in the body.
And you know, when you've got a lot of things going on, and then you've got the stress of the hormonal change, you've got the psychological stress of the psychological journey of perimenopause and then you're not drinking enough water or you're having a little too much alcohol to cope with your stress and maybe a little bit too much chocolate, bit too much coffee, and these are all very common things. Then you've got this perfect storm for not just hot flashes, but symptoms, lots of symptoms.
Anthony Hartcher 19:20
Yeah, so I'd like to break it down into those three parts. So you mentioned the minds and in particular, I'm referring to the emotional rollercoaster that women go on, and then there's the adrenal support that you mentioned, and then liver detoxification. So yeah, I'd like to just touch on those three areas and what women can do in each of those three areas to best nurture themselves so that they have the best possible trip through perimenopause, and I guess not make it such a hairy roller coaster journey.
Brenda Rogers 19:56
Yeah. Where would you like us to start Anthony?
Anthony Hartcher 20:00
Let's start with the emotions because I think that's, you know, you touched on it as well like, because, you know, if our emotions around regulated or all over the place, you know, we often go to those comfort things such as alcohol, you know, helps us suppress our emotions or takes them away, or chocolate and they're the things that are going to contribute to weight gain, and no woman wants to gain and no one likes to gain weight and look different in terms of their fingers. So, yeah, so let's start with the top down, so to speak. So let's start with the, you know, the emotions, liver, and then the adrenals. Or if the emotions go with the adrenals, or if they are.
Brenda Rogers 20:44
We are complex, super complex. Well, first of all, the hairiness, the scariness of menopause, is because we're unprepared, and there isn't education in our culture about what's actually going on and that's why people, that's why I'm loving educating people about this rite of passage and this psychological journey that we're on because it awakens women too, you know, like, Oh, my goodness, I had no idea. It, you know, it, it taps into cultural issues, like how we value women. So, women are highly valued in our culture when they're young and beautiful. And so, when we're hitting our 40s and 45, and close to our 50s, we're starting to contemplate aging, were having to confront aging, in a culture that doesn't very much value older women.
You know, if you think about the words that have been corrupted for on the, you know, the Honorable role of women post 50, things like a hag, crone, you can probably think of half a dozen others and I can't think of any others right now but these, these imply this, this redundancy, this invisibility, this, you know, uselessness, we've passed our use by date and that's so wrong. That's so wrong. In fact, if the actual absolute opposite of right.
In fact, you know, the only other species that menstruate and has menopause, sorry, not menopause, not menstruate, but has menopause ceases to men to menstruate at some point in their lives are whales and there's a lot of research done on whales for this reason and what they've discovered is that the female older whales, that cease menstruation, become the leaders of the community. Gives me goosebumps, because they're no longer having to worry about reproduction. They've done their job, they are no longer in their bodies no longer need the energy of reproduction, which is quite an energy-hungry process for our bodies.
They've been around the block a few times, they know where the pitfalls and you know, with the sharks live and the, you know, the cold waters and the rapids that they shouldn't go into, they know all of that stuff. They got the experience of looking after the young, and they are beautifully positioned to be in this, this holistic leader, this conscious, compassionate leader, in whatever form that takes, you know.
For women, it might be, you know, being a professor at college, it might be running a business, it might be starting a charity, it might be stepping into a more of a leadership role as the matriarch of the family, the grandmother, or, you know, all of those things are the natural role for women at that age and becoming a leader is quite a squeezy process. We have to condition ourselves to be able to handle the stress, to be able to handle the responsibility and so this rite of passage is really testing us a lot in that. So, in terms of the psychological journey, there are a lot of cleanups that happen at menopause and I think this happens for men as well.
Men have their menopause or their andropause, it's happening a little bit more slowly. But certainly, there is the decline of testosterone and the impacts of testosterone have on the man and it's similar with the woman. So the other part of it is when we talk about emotions, Anthony is that estrogen has an effect on our psychology. If you think about what happened to us when we're teens, it hijacks us, it takes over. But estrogen is considered the hormone of compliance, it's considered to be the sort of veil that descends upon us where taking care of others becomes more important than taking care of ourselves, or, in addition to taking care of ourselves and that's where that motherly instinct comes from.
It's all about the survival of the species and that starts to thin, that starts to disappear. So instead of being, you know, darling, what can I do for you, suddenly, it's got it yourself. So this can be quite confronting because it's like this anger pops up, and rage even for some women and it's like, we're not, we're not well equipped for dealing with these strong emotions. In women are sort of taught to keep all that down, you know, we don't like angry, angry women and so if you're experiencing that yourself, it can be very confusing and confronting, because you don't understand what it's about, and that it's actually normal.
The other thing about emotional the emotional roller coaster is that this taps into the physical well being part of it and that is, if your adrenals are shot, one of the signs of unhealthy adrenals is anxiety, and anxiety and blood sugars are connected and so if you have a little bit of insulin resistance, if you're overweight, because of a car, a carb addiction, or carb craving, if you're in your blood sugars are all over the place, then your tendency when you enter this period will be anxiety.
Not only because it's such a strange time, and you don't, most women don't know what they're entering into. But the biological component of it is, is a challenge as well, because of the blood sugars in adrenal fatigue. So you know, we are and that's what's beautiful about being a natural therapist, and you're like this, as well as me, you understand holism, which is mind, body, and spirit, you know, it's, it's the psychology and the, you know, the person that you are, it's all important into all of this, it's your social environment it's your physical environment, like the amount of toxins in your environment.
It's whether you're happy in your relationship and when the man is going through menopause, and the woman's going through menopause, that's a recipe for real challenge in a relationship and then you've got relationship stress on top of everything else and most, I do a lot of work with women who are struggling in their relationship and when they don't understand this process that they're going through, and also what the man is going through as well.
That's, that's conflict just there and in a nutshell, I'll say that women are coming out from the home and wanting to be out in the world and men are going from being out in the world and wanting to be more than in the home. That's a gross generalization. But you get the sense of it and it's because of the relative levels of our antigens and our, our hormones. We're driven by our hormones, we think it's us, but it's not, it's not, it's our hormones and so when we, when we understand all of these things impact our health, our physical well being a hot flash isn't just maybe not drinking enough water so that our bodies can regulate temperature.
It's maybe not just about how healthy the liver is, and how well we're decent detoxifying hormones out of the body. It can also be little hits of adrenaline because of the anger that we feel that we're not expressing and that I think that's one of the most common causes of hot flashes. I don't have any evidence to back that up. So that's just my opinion. But we know that hot flashes are this little hit of adrenaline and often I'll ask women, what's the thought that you had just before?
Because you can tell it's coming on you know, you can it just can really feel it and, get curious about oh, what was the thought that you just had? And you know, who were you thinking about and who do you want to shoot? You know, because that's how it feels and when you start to normalize that and acknowledge that it doesn't feel so crazy. You know, women have a reputation for being crazy at menopause for reason, even the word hysterectomy comes from the word hysterical and it does feel like that and my goal in talking about hysterectomy is, I'll just add this in Anthony.
I think it's very important for us ladies to keep our anatomy, you know that I don't have anything against women who choose to do HRT and who choose to do a hysterectomy. Because, you know, it's awful if you're flooding every month and if and it's been that way, for five years, I, you know, get it taken out, oh my gosh. But if our culture would let women know, in the first instance, there are 10 things you can do if you're, if you're heavy period, if you're going to be periods. Try all of these first before you get everything taken out. Try all these things first, before you take synthetic and artificial hormones.
They are there if we need them. But my goal in educating women is, let's do the simpler things first, let's understand, let's have a conversation about what's going on. Let's do the low intervention things first and so the beautiful gifts and inherent benefits of this process are gifted upon a woman because if you're taking HRT into your 70s, you really never really reached that point. That's my rant a little bit about it. That's, you know, that the I am so passionate about this, and it's quite a deep conversation. But it's absolutely fascinating. Did I answer all your questions there about adrenals home, emotions, and liver?
Anthony Hartcher 31:50
And a whole lot more. So yeah, really appreciate it, It certainly wasn't a rant, it was a great piece of education and you certainly empowered me and I think, you know, certainly listens, listeners will feel very empowered by what you've just said because it is that lack of education that you touched on, the lack of understanding, and the like, you know, like, and that becomes a societal lack of understanding, and we don't deal with it well, and you mentioned, like relationships are really affected because not only we don't understand menopause
We don't understand or, you know, that we're there's not a lot of knowledge around menopause and as you said, the two together are like, you know, fuel to a fire and, you know, and that whole concept that you explained about, you know, women being at home, and now wanting to get out, that's the behavior that, you know, the hormonal changes driving, and men are experiencing the reverse of that. That's, you know, a recipe for challenges.
So, there are so many great points that you've touched on and I really liked how you know, you really honed in on that education piece, and made us wiser around what women are experiencing, you know, with perimenopause and I think that the earlier point you made was this societal view of you know, women being old, you know, you've come out with some names, which are terrible, and I don't want to repeat them. But, you know, we need to shift that paradigm of how we see this period and see it, as the whales do, has, you know, women, this is when they're going to hit peak leadership.
This is when they're going to do great things for society and really propel society forward. And you certainly see women in that perimenopause, menopause age, really excelling on all fronts, and it's something that we should really, you know, not have this tall poppies syndrome view to it, you know, we should really support the women and I just wanted to get on to that topic of support, because me being a male, and I hope that male listeners are still there because it's so important for us to understand and be educated in this just as easily, you know, just as equally as the females.
That, you know, what do you suggest? The partners, the husbands? The brothers, you know, it because, you know, we feel that we don't understand it, and we don't generally, and it's what is the best thing we can do to really help a woman and support them through this journey?
Brenda Rogers 34:35
Great question. Great question and first of all, I'm thinking about putting a webinar together for teaching men about menopause and I am going to do that actually because there's a lot that you can do. Just a little trigger alert here, I want to give you a statistic for those who're a little sensitive, you might just want to pause for a little bit. But the highest suicide rate for women occurs between 45, aged 45 to 49 and the second highest rate is 50, to 54.
So, you're looking out for depression, you're because you know, when you can't handle all of this stuff, when, when you feel like you're going crazy, and you feel like you want to leave your kids and leave your husband and, and go and meditate in India for the rest of your life, that that doesn't feel that good and what happens when we can't really deal with emotions is we end up suppressing them, and that leads to depression. So, you know, if your wife or mother or whatever, is happier, and you know, laughing about her hot flashes, and she's fine, then that's okay.
Let her go through it. But if she's not coping with that, well, then she needs to get help and she might need someone else outside of her to say, you need to get help, because one of the typical things is that we're in denial. Not only are we in denial, but we minimize our discomfort. You know, if they've shown it in research, you asked women, you know, that, rate there, their discomfort and, you know, it's like, even though they cut haven't slept for 12 months, it's like, oh, they're just used to coping with it. Women are used to dealing getting on with it, right. But that's, that has an impact and so I think that men can be observers, and witnesses and in that sense, as well, listen.
Listen, listen, listen, one of the biggest things women at this age need is someone to listen to them and to and to just get it without having to fix it, which we all want to do, right? Not just men, we all want to, you know, like, I have you thought about this, have you thought about that and that's nice and that's caring, but letting her letting there be a space for her to talk about what's going on, you know, there's so much taboo around it still it this, it's come out in the last sort of 10 years now there's a lot more conversation about it. But only at the surface, we're talking about hot flashes, maybe.
But there's a lot more going on deeper in a woman's body than just hot flashes, that you know, I have clients who talked to me and I'm the menopause expert, so to speak and they even don't tell me about intimate details of what's going on in their bodies because of the taboos and so, you know, husbands and partners are really important in this whole process and if you value your relationship, you will do it because the highest divorce rate is also mid 40s. Because of this transition, and I don't you know, we really don't understand the huge impact that menopause has and perimenopause have on a woman's life and on a relationship and on a couple's life, family lives.
Today, the key things that I would say I would say, you know, stress management is really important so taking her on a holiday, and insisting that she goes on a holiday, that insisting that she starts to brutally bring a bit of yin into the yang of her life. Maybe starting up some yoga or you know, a day a month go on an adventure around even a train trip to Terrigal or something just to get away from the business and away from work.
She probably won't want to but for your mental health days, you know, those kinds of things are something couples can do together and then you know, you know men doing their own process, doing their own you know, making sure they're also healthy and on a path to wellness and mental health, mental health wellness as well because that's not good for a man either that you know the right mental health statistics for men are not that great either. So if you know as much as they can do that together.
Anthony Hartcher 39:56
Yeah, some great points there and I think that stress may management that, you know, going to more the Yin or balancing the Yang with the Yin, so the busyness with the calmness and self care, you know, it's really important in terms of the that overall, you know, helping the body just maintain some sort of balance.
Given, you know, there's so much going on, I just keen also just to touch on the like, there'll be employers or managers that are listening in that either have employees that are going through this, is there something that we should be doing from a workspace work environment, you know, scheduling of activities, or, you know, obviously, there's education is key, and there's not enough we need more of it. Is there anything else that you know, managers, or people in the workplace could do to support women going through this phase?
Brenda Rogers 40:57
Buy a fan, that's a joke. But it's also true, you know, women sitting at their desk having a hot flash, they need a fan. Simple as that. But there's actually a lot of progress happening in this space in the UK, I've been following that for a little while and it's coming into regulations now being able to have sick leave for menopause. So met, employers really need to get informed HR managers, employers do need to get informed because there's going to be a revolution in this.
It's happening in the UK, and we'll get it here eventually, as well. So you know, you can take a day off for PMS, or, you know, period pain, and can and that counts as sick leave and it'll be similar with menopause, but you know, menopause goes on for years. So that's going to be expensive. So education is your right, that's, that's a critical element and it's not just educating the women, but educating the Managing Director, female or nonfemale, the HR manager, and making sure that they have some sympathy for the process.
The thing about women at this age is they often leave their jobs because they're going through so much distress and change, they don't feel understood and heard and listened to and supported and you've got this amazing resource that UPS and leaves, because there's little accommodation for the few years that she needs to sort itself out and so, you know, some compassion for that would be wonderful. You know, my, my release from corporate happened at that age, there was really no understanding or accommodation for what I was going through and so, you know, I started my own business, which I love and adore.
But, you know, there are women whose career paths are in the corporate environment, and you know, you don't want to lose that resource. So that's, that's some things you can be done.
Anthony Hartcher 43:19
Absolutely. I think you've covered it well. It's essentially, as you said, it's their rite of passage and they go into, you know, this wild phase, but if you help that woman through that wild phase of their life, they're going to get the return, as you said, when they hit that wisdom, they're wise, and where their strength in terms of energy and leadership and yeah, so the return on investment for employers is there if they can help them navigate successfully through those wilder years and I think it's worth the investment because as you said, that they're by then they're, you know, got lots of experience behind them. And they're about to hit their peak. So why would you want to lose them just before the peak of their career, really?
Brenda Rogers 44:04
And we're going to talk more about that in part two. But, yeah, that awareness is key.
Anthony Hartcher 44:15
Awesome here and a great segue to part two that will be up and coming which is more the post-menopause years and how to best support women and women, how do they can best help themselves through that period. So, Brenda, I'm just keen to get any final words or your top three tips for people that are entering this or about to enter or totally in the middle of it, or what would you what would your top three tips be?
Brenda Rogers 44:45
Well, it doesn't and if you're not here, you're still cycling and you're experiencing all of these symptoms. Menopause is actually gentler. So hang in there. Get, that'd be my tip number one. Tip number two would be, to be curious. Be curious about your body, what is trying to tell you. Be curious about this time of life and what you can learn about it. Be curious about who's out there that might be able to support you. Sometimes it is a really great female GP or even male. If they're not helpful, if they tell you that you're not going through anything, you know, go to someone else, find someone else get a second opinion and my third tip would be to manage your stress.
Anthony Hartcher 45:40
Thank you so much, Brenda, for sharing that wonderful concluding remarks and all the wisdom that you've imparted with the listeners and viewers, I've certainly empowered my outlook and in terms of what I can do from a male perspective, to support my partner, to support other women that are going through this period and I think you know, it's in the listeners and viewers best interest to share this episode with others that they know that are going along this journey with them and then to I guess, you know, share it with the younger generation because Brenda shared that fantastic tip
Is it will be a lot easier journey through perimenopause, if you've really looked after yourself in the younger years, so I suggest you know, for those young ones that are listening, keep looking after yourself because what we've discussed today will become easier and won't be as wild for years. So if you liked the episode, please share it with others leave a review and I just like to thank Brenda again for coming on the show and for the listeners and viewers. Stay tuned for more insightful episodes of me and my health up and in particular part two of this wonderful series around empowering women to a natural way through menopause. Thank you.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai