In this episode with Kirsty Taylor from The Nourishing Way we explore gut health and in particular SIBO. We discuss:
- what is SIBO?
- what are the symptoms?
- what can cause SIBO?
- how it is diagnosed?
- how it is treated both naturally and medically
- what you can do to help prevent it!
- Kirsty's top tip for remaining healthy in ISO!
- and much much more!!!
me&my Health Up seeks to enhance and enlighten the wellbeing of others. Host Anthony Hartcher is the founder and CEO of me&my wellness which provides holistic health solutions using food is medicine, combined with a holistic, balanced, lifestyle approach. Anthony holds three bachelor degrees in Complementary Medicine; Nutrition and Dietetic Medicine; and Chemical Engineering.
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Oh, it's Anthony Hartcher From me and my wellness, and this is the second episode of me and my health chat. So, today we have someone I know really well through my studies, but you know, studying nutrition, so it's Kirsty Taylor, and she's from the nourishing way. And she's got a really nice journey to share with us about her gut health and hence her journey into understanding more about her gut and what's going on and, and through that journey, you know, and plus her studies as developed incredible insight as to what people can do to heal their gut. So this episode is all about helping you to solve your gut problems using the expertise of Kirsty Taylor, so like to welcome everyone to Kirsty Taylor. Hello, how are you? Fantastic. How you doing?Kirsty Taylor:
I'm great. Thank you.Anthony Hartcher:
Yes. And where are you joining us from?Kirsty Taylor:
I am in the UK at the moment.Anthony Hartcher:
Oh, nice. Nice. Yeah, I haven't been there. But it looks very peaceful. Yes, I guess the I'm really intrigued about hearing your story. I've certainly personally haven't heard it. So on the streets as much as the viewers are to hear about your journey with gut health.Kirsty Taylor:
Well, my gut health definitely links also to my rosacea. And if people don't know that is that's kind of the redness on the skin, which at the moment is going down, which we'll get to. So there, they are very much linked. And it's kind of really hard to pinpoint exactly, when they kind of both began, it was probably sort of, I would say around 2014 2015. I even though as you know, quote, unquote, eating healthy and exercising a lot I was putting on weight, and my general health sort of started to decline around the same time. I, yeah, at the same time, also had hormonal issues. So as kind of the hormonal and gut stuff really sort of started to come together. And then that turned into the realization, the skin progressively got worse, I started to react to lots of food I was eating, and like even the healthy food, so it didn't matter what I was eating, it was sort of I was finding I was having issues with it. And I think what most people don't appreciate is the effect on the quality of life and both of those conditions can have. So if you have gut issues, and quite bad, like you don't want to go out because you don't want to eat certain foods or, you know, you need to be sometimes close to a bathroom. And same with like skin conditions. Whether it's rosacea or like psoriasis, or even eczema and stuff, like depending where it is on your body, it can actually make you feel quite self conscious. So that actually, like definitely become an issue. Life was getting super busy and stressful at the time as well, which definitely always links into those kinds of things. So yeah, it was through, probably having the realization that I really found my passion and link with SIBO. So because those two are quite related, and aAnthony Hartcher:
lot of my own words, you know, just for the viewers that don't know, yeah, yeah, what's thatKirsty Taylor:
it is small intestinal bacteria overgrowth. So it's basically where bacteria that should be living in other parts of your body. So whether it's down in your large intestine, and they're even finding that sometimes bacteria from your mouth can be in your small intestine, which is kind of cool. But the reason? Yeah, so this bacteria is good. Like, if you normally have it, it's fantastic. It's just meant to be in the right spots. So it's not meant to being a small intestine. Yeah, and that can then lead to a whole host of different health problems. Yeah, so that's kind of my journey, in a nutshell. And that, I suppose, through that journey led me to study nutrition and that's how I met you. That's how I ended up at endeavor because I yeah, I just got such a passion for it because I suppose I could see the benefits it was having on me and I wanted to do that for everyone.Anthony Hartcher:
And what were you doing prior to nutrition? What was your lifeKirsty Taylor:
I was always in operations management. So for a the supermarket so I worked for Aldi, and I also worked at Wendy's the ice cream company if people remember that. So yeah, I literally went and I used to make ice cream for a living. So yeah, make it and sell it so I have definitely done the whole one at a time is bad. We didn't So enjoy that. But yeah, I went from a very high sugary, high carb kind of caffeine fueled existence to right now.Anthony Hartcher:
Wow, we'll get it, I'll get onto what you eat now, but just on the the SIBO front, what sort of symptoms come as a result of SIBO?Kirsty Taylor:
Pretty much any of your gastro intestinal symptoms. So it can be bloating, belching, the constipation, diarrhea, alternating, it's actually really linked with IBS. So if people like think about those IBS style symptoms, like a lot of pain in a lot of wind, they literally think that um, so basically, I think it's the figures around 11% of the population have IBS, and up to 80% of people with IBS generally have SIBO. So between I think it's like 60, or 80. So it's in the IBS population, it's actually quite prevalent.Anthony Hartcher:
And how do they distinguish between IBS and SIBO?Kirsty Taylor:
If done through a breath test, so you take a solution, and then you breathe into tube sort of every 20 minutes, and your body will produce two gases as it digests and submits food, which is again, quite natural hydrogen and methane. But it's where when those spike too much in too quickly, and that's how you know that there's so many things happening in the wrong spot.Anthony Hartcher:
Okay, okay. Yeah. And, you know, so people that may be experiencing this, what can they do about it? Like, what what, what's the first, you know, what would you recommend the first step be if you're experiencing these now, these symptoms? You mentioned, belching and bloated? And did you know that intermittent constipation, diarrhea, what would be the first point point a call?Kirsty Taylor:
Let me see, I would think you should go and see a natural health person. But yeah, be so because you do want to know if it is a SIBO that you're dealing with. Because I mean, it could be something else. Like I said, it's between 60 and 80, there could be something else going on. And you want to know what that is, there is one thing you really need to address is the underlying conditions that can cause SIBO of which, like, there are heaps, and they fall into sort of four main categories. So you look at impaired motility. So that's basically that wave that pushes your food down through, basically from the throat all the way down to your bottom. So if something happens that impairs that motility, it can cause food to sit in the small intestine too long and start to ferment. And that can literally be something like food poisoning, but severe food poisoning. So if you've had it for more than 24 hours, it could be possible, a traumatic brain injury. So if you've had a fall, I mean, how many people like fall off bikes or fall off horses? And you know, it, you might do that, and it might not cause SIBO, but some people will. Hypothyroidism slows everything down. So that kind of stuff. Definitely have impaired digestion. So when your stomach acid isn't strong enough, maybe you've got poor bile flow, being that, you know, stressed out chronic fight or flight situation, that definitely impairs your digestion. And let's face it, that is definitely a trigger for a lot of people, yes. Then we've got things like that impair the flow through the intestines. So it's basically a result of adhesions, so you might have had an abdominal surgery, like appendicitis. Endometriosis is a huge one. And like that's getting more and more common in females. And then medications, so people literally take anti diarrhea medications like Imodium, this can actually stop it. So can things like any depressants and even your cholesterol lowering drugs? So there is a lot but I think addressing those, you need to make sure you're addressing those otherwise, there's no point treating the rest of us it's gonna keep coming back.Anthony Hartcher:
And what do medicine do in relation to yes, they could diagnose it, but what's their treatment? How would they support someone through this?Kirsty Taylor:
And they probably wouldn't even diagnose it. Unfortunately, it's not something that they are really looking at, as I suppose, l. legitimate cause at the moment, which is unfortunate. There is definitely huge amount of research being done, which I think is really helping it. Yes. So that is definitely becoming up but they won't generally send someone for a breath test. Unfortunately, that's make you have to Do su a natural health practitioner, and you do have to pay for at the moment. But I know in the US it's a little bit different they have their naturopathic doctors. And some people also find that when you treat something else with antibiotics, it can actually help you say very, and that's because it's having an effect of killing the bacteria. So they can actually help, but it's obviously not in a purposeful way. It's more of a side effect. Yeah. Yeah.Anthony Hartcher:
Yeah. Um, and is there any genetic predisposition to this, like, can parents or anyone, is there anything?Kirsty Taylor:
Unless something could like I mean, things like hypothyroidism could be genetic. So it depends. Some of the underlying symptoms, yes, could definitely be genetic. Endometriosis can sometimes be genetic, but not the actual car. It's more the underlying causes.Anthony Hartcher:
And then so your approach is very much find the underlying cause. And you work with that underlying cause. So just say it's, you know, stress related your work with lions on the stress side of things? Yeah. Is there anything you do co currently? You know, once you found that underlying root cause? Yeah. So night symptoms, or?Kirsty Taylor:
Yeah, I follow Dr. Nirala Jacobi's protocol. Okay, so she's an Australian, naturopathic doctor, and she's known as the SIBO Doctor. So she's like, the queen. And she has developed with Dr. Allison Siebecker, as someone in the US a biphasic protocol. Yeah. So we start off in the first phase of the diet, it is it is a little bit restrictive, but it is a therapeutic diet. So we don't expect people to be on it for a long time. And the idea is, you get the symptoms down. So you try and give people that relief. And that probably goes for around four weeks you're looking at and then hopefully by that time, you've got your test results back and you know, if you're dealing with methane, hydrogen, or both, and then you can then use your antimicrobials which is what we would use as natural health practitioners to kill off some of that bacteria. And at the same time, you start adding some foods back, but you do it really gently, and obviously monitor their symptoms. Okay, yes.Anthony Hartcher:
And what I guess how did people best contact you if you know, if they're experiencing these symptoms and feeling, you know, discomfort? And it's been happening for a number of years? What how do they get into contact with you? How do they get help?Kirsty Taylor:
On my website is the nourishing whey.com.au. So you can find me there. Or literally, if you look up the nourishing way on Facebook or Instagram, I always hang out there. And that's probably the easiest way to find me.Anthony Hartcher:
Yeah, and you obviously consult online like we are doing today on Zoom.Kirsty Taylor:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.Anthony Hartcher:
And in terms of ISO, obviously very topical at the moment. And you mentioned stress. So there could be potentially, you know, more incidences where people are feeling more these gastrointestinal symptoms and yeah, yeah. So it could be, you know, I guess the predisposition to what, you know, what coming out of ISO is, you know, it was triggered by the, the isolation or the, the limitations or the stress of, you know, being in this pandemic, I think, too.Kirsty Taylor:
Yeah, being in isolation has probably made people stop and even pay attention to their symptoms, because I know, for me, like, when I was in those jobs working sort of 50 hours a week, and you're like, you don't have time to be sick, or you don't even listen to your body. So your body might be giving you these little whispers and you know, you might start getting loaded after meals, and then it starts, you know, becoming, you know, maybe you get a little bit more constipated or the diarrhea that's happening a bit more the belching starts and like it's just these little things keep adding on. And yeah, before you know it, it says so I think isolation has probably helped a lot of people stop and maybe listen to their body for the first time. So you know, might not be gastrointestinal symptoms that could be anything so yeah, I think isolation could have can be actually good for some people to be able to allow them to. So what my one of my favorite sayings listen to your body whisper so it doesn't have to scream.Anthony Hartcher:
Yeah, very true, actually. Yeah. Sorry to get it in the early days, and I was Yeah, I was gonna ask is, is there any ways of preventing this? So what can people do on that prevention fund to avoid getting cyber?Kirsty Taylor:
I think, yeah, I mean, you definitely could prevent it by working on some of those triggers, especially if you're, like, prone to those type of things. And I think, once you've had SIBO, so, personally, I have had it and when I treated it the first time, so I did that back, I think it was in 2016. I came back, but I was still working my 50 hour a week job, I still had a lot of stress. And at the time, the person I was working with, you know, we've come a long way in four years in terms of, like, all the research and stuff. And, you know, together, we didn't work enough on those underlying symptoms, which is why that's such a big part of it for me now. And I say, I'm currently treating it again, now. So it takes me the next four years, which again, is great. And ISO, because it doesn't matter if you're on a restricted diet, because you're just at home. So it's like the perfect time to do these things. But it's being aware of the triggers to because it's, you know, say you've got hypothyroidism. And, you know, you might feel like your digestion is generally a little bit sluggish, where you could work to make sure that that doesn't then become a SIBO. Like, because obviously doesn't happen overnight. Yes. But if you start noticing, or maybe I'm only going to toilet every second day, you want to, obviously get that food moving through. So working on stuff to improve your utility. Same with digestion, if you know she's a little bit more burpee than usual, or maybe that's your stomach acid. So what can we do to help that? And periods of stress, we all know that that like, instantly can affect our digestion. So yeah, if you're going through those stressful times, just, you know, being aware of them and just finding times, even if it's for five minutes to do some really deep belly breaths. It's just amazing how much and it's always the simple things I find that has the biggest impact.Anthony Hartcher:
Yeah, really managing that stress side of things and listening to your body. And in order to mention the motility doing something about that, what can you do, you know, nutritionist point of view, in terms of helping with that motility.Kirsty Taylor:
We can there's definitely some supplements that we can give that help. That's called a pro kinetic. And the idea is that it helps that motility wave, that's one of my favorite ones are actually not food related. So gargling water because the thing that actually helps is the vagus nerve that runs from our brain to our gut, stimulating that vagus nerve, which actually runs down the back of our throat, which is why things like singing really loudly work. So I'm gonna shower. Right at the moment, we can't really go for long drives. But when we can drive again, like Yeah. Like seeing at the like, really loud. gargling water. I mean, so if you're into a game, you can sort of use them both. If you want to meditate to help you stress if you do some chanting, that can really help as well. So yeah, very stimulating the vagus nerve can be a fun thing to do. People feel like they're idiots. But once you start doing it, it actually I don't think that's a little giggling enjoying your life too, which I think's missing sometimesAnthony Hartcher:
Absolutely. Bit of car karaoke. Singing in the shower!Kirsty Taylor:
Yeah. I mean, how good is everyone every one sound in the shower?Anthony Hartcher:
Sounds like fun. Yeah, easy to do. Yeah, that's good for you and helps ya, helps prevent site SIBO helps, you know, lower the symptomatic profile and helps you know, as you said, with motility, what would be your number one tip in helping someone through ISO at the moment? What would you suggest?Kirsty Taylor:
Oh, so many, um, I think the best one for me has actually been nature therapy. Okay, I have found that if I can get outside, again, not food related, but I think it just is so important. Even if it's just putting your feet in the grass with some sunshine on your face. But I really like long walks that just really sitting out there and appreciating it. I think that just again getting out of the space moving some energy definitely is a help.Anthony Hartcher:
So that real Yeah, I guess appreciation for the world as it is and how presents itself and engaging with it. So what you're saying is, you know, taking off the shoes and connecting with the grass and observing the beauty, that hidden beauty that we often oversee, you know when we're running around, doing those 50 hour weeks and I saw allows us, you know, or forced us into slowing down so we can now appreciate what's around us.Kirsty Taylor:
And it's quiet. I mean, it is definitely getting a bit busier now in our industry you guys can move around a lot more and even like obviously the first two weeks we were in lockdown here in the UK, it was definitely quiet and people are I think, a little bit more getting out and doing those nature walks now. So it's definitely you can hear the world waking up a little bit, but it's still really quite peaceful and yeah, such a so nice. So I really quite like that. What would your tip be?Anthony Hartcher:
I'm very much that nature person. So yeah, I love nature. I love getting out of you know, I grew up on five acres. So you know, love the bush and love playing playing in the dirt and you know, growing up near the sea, you know, going down to the ocean going for an ocean whim and just really being with it. Like that's what I love about ocean swimming is you know, you're moving with the the waves and you know, just just allowing your body to feel it. Fine. You know, you get into a nice rhythm and the sun shining on you. It's just amazing. It's you know, it's peaceful and relaxing. Yeah, it really calms me.Kirsty Taylor:
Oh, you just made me miss the beach. As soon as I can drive, that's where I'm going andAnthony Hartcher:
It's been so wonderful to have you on now, Kirsty and, you know, thanks for sharing all your tips around SIBO. And, you know, what can people look out for in terms of the symptomatic profile? What can they do in terms of you know, who to contact who to best go to, and obviously, you know, someone with your expertise, you know, has a lived experience, it's now qualified in treating as that you know, understands what works, what doesn't work, you know, because you've been through it yourself, you're now treating clients with SIBO. So I'm now really appreciate the, you know, the time you've put aside to really share your knowledge with the viewers as to what they can do to help improve their gut health. And particularly, I loved all your tips around, you know, stress management, you know, it's something that confront all of us, and particularly more so than ever, in today's current climate. So, yeah, really appreciate the time and viewers, please get in touch with Kirsty Taylor from The Nourishing Way. So Google the nourishing way, or just put in your browser, thenourishingway.com.au and you'll go to Kirsty's website, there's contact details and how to reach her on that, as well as Facebook is another way in which you can contact Kirstie. So is there any last concluding comments you'd like to share with the viewers before we sign out, and,Kirsty Taylor:
um, I think if you do go into any kind of treatment for chronic disease, because generally, if people have SIBO, it is a chronic disease, because they've usually gone to the doctors a few times wondering what their symptoms are, obviously, they haven't been diagnosed with anything particular. So they've usually had it for quite a while. And yet, again, with anything chronic, remember that the path back to healing is a marathon, not a sprint. So don't expect to get results like that. It is that very slow, gradual pace. And when you cross that finish line, it makes it all the more exciting.Anthony Hartcher:
I love that concluding message. Yes. It's a marathon and not a sprint. And, you know, have that if you have that expectation you're working on, you know, going through that journey and focused on the processes that as you outlined in terms of your treatment protocol for SIBO. You're just doing the process doing it day in and day out. And eventually over time, things will heal and you'll feel so much better for it. Yeah. Oh, wow. Thank you so much for sharing all your wisdom, Kirsty and have a great day. I know it's a sunny day. Okay. Yeah. Take care. See you later.