me&my health up

Thriving Kids! How to Support their Development?

September 26, 2020 me&my wellness / Dr Jessica Mangala Season 1 Episode 25
me&my health up
Thriving Kids! How to Support their Development?
Show Notes Transcript

Have you ever wondered why your child/children are constantly unsettled or cannot focus at school. In this episode of me&my health up we discuss children's developmental health with Dr. Jessica Mangala (Chiropractor). Some of the areas we cover:

  • What should parents look out for in regards to signs/symptoms that there may be a structural issue or dysfunctional nervous system?
  • How can parents help their children's development - re heavy school bags, exercises
  • What's Jessica’s top 3 health tips for parents re raising healthy children


Bio & Resources
Dr Jessica Mangala started working at a large multidisciplinary clinic during university and continued practicing there before taking over her own clinic in 2020. Her vision is to continue providing the best client care using her clinical experience and the best practice supported by up-to-date research. Dr Jess uses a variety of chiropractic techniques to suit people of all ages and stages of life. 

Jessica's top 3 resources for parents are: 

  1. Help your child deal with stress and thrive - Stuart Shanker
  2. The Whole Brain Child - Daniel Siegel 
  3. Well Adjusted Babies - Dr Jennifer Barham-Floreani


How to connect with Jess:

  • jessica@realignhealthclinics.com.au 
  • instagram @realign.health


me&my Health Up seeks to enhance and enlighten the well-being of others. Host Anthony Hartcher is the founder and CEO of me&my wellness which provides holistic health solutions using food is medicine, combined with a holistic, balanced, lifestyle approach. Anthony holds three bachelor degrees in Complementary Medicine; Nutrition and Dietetic Medicine; and Chemical Engineering. https://meandmywellness.com.au/

Support the show
Anthony Hartcher:

Welcome to another insightful episode of me&my health up. Now today, I'm your host, Anthony Hartcher. And I'm a clinical nutritionist, and lifestyle medicine specialist. And today I'm very blessed to have with me just Dr. Jess Mengele from realign health. And she's here to talk to us about, she's a chiropractor. And she's here to talk to us about children's health. And so we're going to be talking about children's health from a structural point of view in terms of development, as well as from a nervous system point of view. So how to keep a healthy nervous system, how important the healthy nervous system is to overall growth and development, and how to keep your kids growing in that optimal space that we all want our kids to thrive and flourish. So welcome, Jess.

Jess Mangala:

Hi, Anthony. Thanks for having me.

Anthony Hartcher:

Thanks for joining us. It's a delight to have you on. Yeah, so just please inform the listeners as to how you have arrived or doing what you're doing today is just the chiropractor.

Jess Mangala:

Yeah, so I mean, through school, it was healthcare and health and wellness was always part of my lifestyle in terms of being quite active as a kid playing netball quite a bit. There's always injuries in that. So I did a see chiropractor when I was younger, for injuries, ankles, knees, and growing pains, I guess. And then when I graduated from high school, I went straight into uni , Bachelor of chiropractic science and then a Master's of chiropractic. And from there, I got a job with a multidisciplinary clinic. So I'm based in Roselle, and in the Midwest, and from there sort of came across quite a lot of families in the community. So my sort of progression into wellness care and family care and looking after, not just people with back pain, but also looking after kids in their nervous system. And then neurological development was also a big part of the practice, because you're seeing a lot of young families in the area as well. Yeah.

Anthony Hartcher:

Yeah, you have a strong passion to helping kids thrive and you know, be very much centre around kids development and helping parents raise healthy kids. So where does passion come from? It does come from you know, your journey through being very active with sports, getting injuries being helped by a chiropractor and really seeing that need, or is there another really desire to just create a thriving society of healthy kids.

Jess Mangala:

But it was, I think, part of the experience of me going through injury and me growing up and having seen a chiropractor as well, sort of helped with that progression into me moving to looking after kids. So paediatric care as well. And as I said, in the, in the community, there are a lot of young families and now even working nice and suburbs, a lot of very active kids as well, which is great. But with, you know, being quite active, you also tend to see the injury and and then we start to delve a bit deeper into that and just start working on kids and their stress and their development throughout their, throughout their growth period really. And I part of my philosophy, I guess, is sort of helping to build strong healthy spines rather than trying to fix broken bodies as as adults. And so yeah, it's just for me that natural, natural progression.

Anthony Hartcher:

And, you know, for those that haven't experienced chiropractic work, can you tell us a little bit about the chiropractors philosophy and how they view health and the sort of work that they do, just to, you know, educate the listeners that have never been exposed to chiropractic chiropractor?

Jess Mangala:

Yeah, for sure. So I mean, a lot of it, when you do talk to people, the first thing they say is, oh, you just you fixed backs, and backs, part of it, I guess, but I try and sort of delve a bit deeper. And we sort of discuss the importance of the nervous system, which is basically the connection between the brain and the body, and the spine, houses the spinal cord. So that's the connection between the brain and the body. So we're looking after maintaining that. That's basically the crux of it. But in doing that, we're working on improving function. We're improving posture, were improving balance and coordination as well. So when we're starting to see kids, it's a lot of that sort of more neurological stuff that we're checking. We're checking reflexes, we're checking their strength and their balance. And you know, there's a whole range of different techniques chiropractors can use for trading or for a treatment. So you can go from from zero That's more manual and hands on to more low force techniques, we do a bit of muscle work as well releasing, activating and strengthening as well. So a lot more with kids we're working with exercises, stretches postural corrections. So corrective exercises. So we give them a bit of homework, which has always been fun. But when they can compare from the first session to, you know, six sessions in when we do their progress exam, we start seeing massive changes in, you know, just how confident there are in their own bodies and their strength and their coordination, you start to see a lot, which is great kids respond so well, they don't have all this external stress of, you know, as we do as adults. So the changes you can see in kids is pretty impressive. It's pretty quick as well.

Anthony Hartcher:

Fantastic. Really pleased to hear that and just thinking, Is there any particular stories you'd like to share with us around kids working with you and what they've come for, and the outcomes that you know, you've been able to help them achieve?

Jess Mangala:

Yeah, I mean, in my time practising, I've had the pleasure of working with so many families, so many different kids. And there's always, there's always going to me, those little success stories, you know, kids that are struggling with playing a particular sport or coordination that they're running. And just being able to the next school carnival, they have coming home with a, you know, an award for coming first or second, those sorts of things are really, really nice, because it's tangible, but it's the parents usually what the parents are saying it's, are they sleeping better, you know, that teachers are saying that they're behaving better in school, you know, they're not acting up anymore, those sorts of things are more for me, like, huge, no, kids, parents commenting on how kids are sleeping better, and they're more calm, and they're not so agitated, that sort of stuff is where I sort of, I get that, things like that, because it's it's a noticeable change the kids, you know, the kids, you can see that they're thriving, you can see that they're doing better, but it's nice for the client, where their comments are coming. The parents are noticing it, the other family members are noticing it, even teachers at school noticing it. So that's quite

Anthony Hartcher:

cool. Yeah, it must feel great when, you know, parents are so impressed with, you know, your ability to help their children. And in particularly, it helps the parent because if the kids are sleeping, the parents, yeah, generally sleep better. And if the kids are behaving and doing the right thing, then there's less stress on the parents. So I guess as you're working with the children, you're also alleviating the parent stress as well. So it's, it's really fantastic. Yeah.

Jess Mangala:

So yeah, we're helping.

Anthony Hartcher:

Yeah, absolutely. Just the, you know, from a parent's perspective, what should they look out for with their children through? You know, I mean, you mentioned sleep, okay. So if the kids aren't sleeping, you know, it's something that you can help out with, through helping, you know, the nervous system. If kids are, you know, got limited attention span or misbehaving or irritable, then that's something else you can work out for. Is there any other telltale signs and symptoms that parents can look out for to say, Yeah, I think I should get them looked at by Jess.

Jess Mangala:

Yeah, yeah, so definitely, I mean, a big one is posture. And the reason we we check posture is because it's, it's, it's, we can say it there, it's physical, you know, so if the posture isn't great, then we know that there's potentially some nervous system dysfunction, they're, you know, putting stress on the nervous system on the spinal cord. And that's going to eventually put stress on their, on the way that their body is functioning, the way that their organs are functioning. So that's what we tend to say. So you know, if, if you're noticing that your kid and it's a big one with screen time, as well, as at seeing kids on devices or on screens, or even when they are doing homework, you know, just the postures that you tend to see. And it's becoming a big issue these days. Because everything's on computers, everything's online on the TV screen. So that's something we're starting to see is becoming a bigger burden. So even just having a kid's spine checked, it's just getting their posture checked, it's going to be a good starting point. Most kids as well, depending on the age, they can't fake it if they're in pain are in pain. So say a kid is limping or if it's you know, they're not quite walking straight, then that's going to be another telltale sign. So you're looking at the physical the physical body and listening to them. So if they are saying yeah, something just doesn't feel right. They may not know how to explain that. Or, you know, know exactly where the pain is coming from, but they can well, they generally will like, like, you know, as a parent that is something going on that's not doesn't feel quite right. Yeah.

Anthony Hartcher:

Yeah, I agree. And you know, particularly around that screen time thing, you only see adults and look at the some of the postures that screentime is causing at the adult population, that drill that zombie looking look, you know, with the forehead tilt and the hunched over. And you know, and you observe, you know, when you're looking around, you see people on their devices, and the position they're in, and you're thinking, Oh, that doesn't look good. But they're in another world, they're not aware of their posture. And yeah, probably not aware of what they're, you know, what that is doing to that posture? Yeah,

Jess Mangala:

it's a huge one, for sure. And most people won't even notice that I do have people coming in and saying, Oh, I saw myself in a picture. And my head was sitting so far forward, and my shoulders and I just look terrible, and you don't realise these things. Because in daily life, you just kind of going about your, your activities to do that. And, you know, being conscious of your posture, or what good posture should look like or feel like in your body, there are definitely ways of correcting it. And as I said, we were trying to with working with kids is we're trying to build strong, healthy spines before they become broken adults, you know, so it's really getting on top of it before they reach skeletal maturity, which is the ages of 14 to 16, that's when the bones finally reach their maturity, and they grow infusers as adult bones. So it's a good time to get started on working with kids. Because, you know, it's, we can make some great changes and see some massive improvements with that.

Anthony Hartcher:

So the question arises, in my mind is, how long before you know you mentioned poured into 16? At what age? Do you recommend parents take their kids along for a spinal review or check? Yeah, so

Jess Mangala:

I mean, I start thinking a lot through more school age. So starting kindergarten, onwards, and that's mainly because of school bags sitting more, you know, these sort of, it's just a really big change in, in their activity. But that also means it's a big load on their nervous system, because they're trying to cope with all these extra strict stresses. I've seen kids from, you know, two to four weeks old mums, and I'm in for just a checkup of reflexes. So we do something very, very different with newborns. And with kids. We're checking all their reflexes, primitive reflexes, so reflexes them on with to help them survive. We want to make sure that they're integrating those particular reflexes that particular ages, to make sure they're meeting their milestones. Otherwise, that can have influences with things like posture and balance and strength as well. That's a that's kind of a slightly different sort of area of care. But when we're thinking more about stress on the nervous system, and postures, we're seeing a lot more from our school age, for sure.

Anthony Hartcher:

And, you know, I've heard that the birthing process, you know, particularly traumatic birth, and really having an impact on the way we develop structurally, is that true?

Jess Mangala:

Yeah, definitely. And you can imagine, like, even for moms that have to go through pretty traumatic birth, it's very traumatic for the bub as well, because it's, you know, having all these medical interventions, you know, whether it's an emergency C section, or a vacuum or forceps delivery, is going to be stressed, you know, and they'll often do that because Bub's Heartway rate is dropping. So it's, you know, to do you know, these medical interventions to help save bub to make sure that the delivery is safe, both mum and bub, but it can still be stress on the nervous system. And oftentimes, I do see, when I do check these newborns that they have delayed integration of their reflexes or they may not be if it was a forceful delivery, so forceps or vacuum, they may start to see some sort of tightening on one side of the body or they may not be symmetrical in their movement. And that's, you know, you can see that in when they're breastfeeding, latching latching can maybe issue or the way that they're doing tummy time, they may not be very comfortable on their tummies. There's going to be reasons for this, sort of, particularly for newborns. And you asked earlier about the signs and symptoms for newborns, it's very much not sleeping, they're not digesting they're not pooping properly. They're not doing their tummy time or they're on they feel unsettled or they're hard to settle. They're the big ones for newborns before they can say anything. You can see those pretty obviously with kids. Yeah.

Anthony Hartcher:

So they can't raise the refluxing after breastfeeding or bottle feeding. And you know that constant crying and as you said Can't settling you know would be another telltale find that there's potentially something wrong that should be looked at.

Jess Mangala:

Yeah, yeah, so definitely the the nervous systems been overwhelmed or the nervous system is unable to switch from the sympathetic fight or flight into the parasympathetic rest and digest system. So that a lot of the stuff we do is just to help with switching them out of that sympathetic overdrive, to help calm their nervous system. Yeah, and that can just flow on effects that can start to we can start to see things like digestion, improving, sleeping is improving, and settling becomes a lot easier to be big things,

Anthony Hartcher:

I can see the importance of working with the whole family, because you know, if the children, you know, have this unsettling, or their nervous systems in that sympathetic dominance, you know, that stress state, then that obviously, you know, affects their, what they're doing their ability to concentrate, and sleep and everything that impacts the parents, the parents are stressed, not sleeping. And so your work and really help every member of the family in a sense of really, you know, switching off that sympathetic dominance, putting it into that rest and digest state and helping everyone sleep and everyone's mood and well being so I can see a real benefit, not only the children, but for the parents.

Jess Mangala:

Yeah, definitely. And this is a thing as well, kids are very intuitive they can be they can sense when mom and dad are stressed, they can sense that, you know, even it doesn't matter how old they are, you know, we don't sometimes don't give them enough credit they can be they can sense what's going on in the environment around them. So it's sort of it's, you know, the happier you know, everyone is you know, more, the more, you'll start to notice that the healthier people are in the family. As soon as his stress from one party, it starts to seep into the rest of family. So it is important to get the whole family checks me that's, that's my philosophy, you know?

Anthony Hartcher:

Well, it's a good point that your eyes because you know, the parents are busy with their careers and raising a family, you know, they're constantly running around and constantly stressed. And as you said, the children pick up very quickly, intuitively, that their parents are stress, and that makes them uneasy, because it puts them into that fight or flight response, because they're thinking that unsettlement, and they don't, and kids are always looking for that security. Because they're so vulnerable. So that would make them feel a bit unsecure, unsettled, and, you know, really drive their adrenaline response, and just coming from the parents being so busy and active.

Jess Mangala:

Yeah, definitely, definitely.

Anthony Hartcher:

Yeah, so the parents can help out in the sense that they can, you know, they can slow down a bit and, you know, do more relaxing sort of activities and taking a bit of time, and maybe creating some space in their lives, just to be slow and still and, you know, providing that conducive environment for the children. And it's not easy for anyone to, you know, change the routine or change in real reorientate their goals. But I think that, you know, there's certainly a benefit there if the parents calm a little and then that rubs off on on the children.

Jess Mangala:

Yeah, definitely. And this I say that to particularly my, my mom's postpartum that I see because I see them through the pregnancy and then postpartum there, and it's busy with kids, you know, it's busy with a newborn, it's busy, you've got, you know, a toddler and a newborn. I say you've still got to find time for yourself. Because if you're not at your best, then you can't do your best for your kids. And that is a little bit of a reminder for them to go okay, actually, if I'm feeling rundown if I'm exhausted, I should ask for help. Because it's so essential to not only their own health, but for their family's health as well. It's

Anthony Hartcher:

so yeah, it's such an important point that your rise is that element of self care that often tickets, yeah, or is put aside for others. And it's so important as you said, to do a bit of self care. So the quicker because it helps you to help others more effectively. And it comes down to that what they say on the aeroplane, you know, when they're doing the safety announcement is, you know, if, if the oxygen masks are needed to look, look after yourself first and then serve others. So I think, you know, there's an important point we can take away, you know, make sure that we're doing self care so that we can be the best mom and dad or best partner or it's to do our best in terms of being you know, wanting to achieve certain things. You know, we need to sometimes take a step back and and look after ourselves, which is important for all Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you have any recommendations around because you mentioned earlier about, you know, the, I guess the structural issues that can be caused by screen time by carrying heavy bags. So is there anything that you suggest to parents in terms of how they should, you know, thick, you know, screen times inevitable is a particular way they should be using screens in order to not impact their posture too much when they do use their screens? And then the other part of the question is, you know, when they're with the school bags, is there, you know, particular bags or particular ways of carrying the bag that will support their structure?

Jess Mangala:

Yeah, yeah, great question. A couple of different things. So I mean, screentime, it will vary for different different ages. So yeah, there's there's ways to look at ideal screen times. But I think generally, what I do recommend is that kids and adults are getting up and sort of having a break from the screen for about an hour after every 20 to 30 minute block, which it doesn't say my time. And if you're, if you're you stuck at the desk, and you don't get up and move around and postures going to suffer, we are core deactivates and out, we just we switched our default, which is often going to be the path of least resistance, which is going to be slouching and bad posture. Same goes for kids. I do say that if they're reading or if they're on, you know, doing some homework, and they can lie on the floor, do it lie on their tummies and do it in that extension position, which can feel quite nice, because it's actually activating the back muscles in the posterior. So that's another tip as well. But making sure their desk setup is ideal. I mean, we do it as adults, making sure ergonomics are ideal for us. Kids just as important because they're their spines are changing quite a bit. The other thing with with school bags, or with carrying backpacks, ideally, we shouldn't have a backpack that weighs more than 10% of the body weight of the child. Oftentimes, you'll see particularly with the little ones with a huge backpack bigger than almost bigger than them, you want to make sure that that's not going to be weighing more than 10% of their body weight, we generally will pack the heavier items closer to the body. So at the back of the bag, and then as it kind of goes away, it's a lot lighter items can be packed in. And then we try and keep the backpack both shoulder straps on I know it's cool anymore to have one of the straps off but ideally, both of the straps on and having the bag secured so that it's not pulling the child back, once the nice bit higher up into the centre of the back as well. So it's just about these, I guess physics, we don't want them being pulled down by the bag, and we don't want to be doing it carrying the bag all the way to the bag on one side more than the other.

Anthony Hartcher:

Yes, just thinking whether that was affected by a problem. You know, as I grew into, you know, early adulthood, I had this neck tilt to one side, and I you know, I can see it in photos today that were taken, you know, probably 20 years ago now. And yeah, it was incredible. I went on a journey with a chiropractor for 10 years and you know, I still occasionally you know check in with the chiropractor and and I look at my photos taken today compared to them in I've got much straighter head compared to what I was when I finish school and I'm thinking maybe it was that heavy back but you know, on one side and trying to be cool

Jess Mangala:

because I remember always wearing my backpack on bad shoulders up here sitting out properly. Yeah, I must have been working towards that.

Anthony Hartcher:

Absolutely, it's, yeah, it's that cool that you had and that calling to then serve the rest of the world and to help them with their posture and, and how to carry a bag directly and you know how to look at a screen and take breaks, take frequent breaks, I actually really liked that point. You raised in terms of every 20 to 30 minutes, you know, to get off, move around and to adjust because you know, if you don't your your core muscles get fatigued and then we get lazy and fix that posture. And I'm thinking that really ties in well with that Pomodoro principle, you know, take a break every 20, 25 minutes and then I'll also heard from an optometrist that in turn when looking at a screen we need to refocus, you know our vision otherwise you know, we can create what is it the you We get short. So you know, we can't, you know, when things get blurry for us long term in terms of terms of looking at things that are close to us. And you know, in order to exercise those eye muscles, she suggested after 20 minutes of looking away, so it was looking away six feet in the distance for I think, I think it was on 20 feet in the distance, but 20 seconds and doing that every 20 minutes. So I thought, your Yeah, your suggestion is fantastic, you know, for, for people to apply that Pomodoro principle, taking a break every 20 minutes, because it helps not only with posture, helping with the eyes and gets us up and moving and you know, helps us with increasing activity and being less sedentary. So yeah, I really, really like it. However, the timing so well together.

Jess Mangala:

Well, this and you know, it's research all about that. So it is not just something you know, a number was picked out of there. It definitely is. It's a good, good, good reminder, we often will get little, you know, buzzers, if you've got a Fitbit, or you know, those smartwatches that tell you kind of get up and move around, you've only done so many steps, you know, in an hour. So it's good reminder, you can put the reminders on the screens as well. And I think even kids, if you've got kids using devices, you can also set reminders for them. Yeah. So it's good. It's a, it's a necessary evil, because sometimes we'll think if they're getting up and moving around, they get distracted. But actually, if you're moving around and doing a bit of a stretch, you're actually just getting that oxygen, fresh oxygen up into the brain. So your concentration is going to be better anyway. And people will often say yeah, but I was kind of stuck in the moment and doing getting work done. But really, it just helps. Yeah, you get your body moving. And that helps to nourish the spine, and then the nervous system.

Anthony Hartcher:

Yeah, and I think it just helps, as you said, become ultimately more productive. Because you're chunking, your work down into smaller, incremental sections, where you can just you know that for that 20 minutes, you're solely focusing on that part, you're turning off all distractions. And that's all you're doing. Whereas I think, you know, people say, as you said, they get into the, you know, they think they're in this flow, but they're also in that flow, they're checking their Facebook and messenger, and they're getting emails and that they're in this flow, and you're not really it's not. Yeah, I think that's a great tip. And it really aligns, as I said, well with the productivity principle around the Pomodoro, and the optometrist, 2020 22, looking 20 feet away, for 20 seconds, every 20 minutes. So ultimately, I'm just thinking, we've probably been chatting, seated for more than 20 minutes. So I think it's time to wrap up and for us to move around. And, you know, I guess, walk the talk, so to speak. So, on that note, Jess, I'm really keen to find out your number one health tip for thriving children. So you know, you're talking to a parent here, what would you say, you know, from your perspective, what's really important, and I'm happy to be in if you want to give a couple more than just one, but just your top three, maybe?

Jess Mangala:

Yeah. So I mean, the big one is going to be as I said, keep keep moving, keep the spine moving. So said entry kids are not great, they're not happy, they're not, you know, there's going to be healthy issues later down the track. So movement is great. But the finding that balance between a very active kid and not actually having time to be a kid, you've got to find that sweet balance, everything in life is about balance. So, you know, don't want to stack up all their afternoons with with sport and with activities and all these things if they don't have a chance to just be a kid. So that's a big, that's a big one. For me. I think that's probably number one. better posture, keeping an eye on the kids posture, just helping to remind them gently that their posture is going to be a big thing and they'll thank you for it light official, then I know if that was if that was quite three. But yeah, the movement in finding that nice balance and then posture as well.

Anthony Hartcher:

I love them. Yes, I think they're very important. And I love that tip one and as you said it was your number one around balance because I think, you know, I'm constantly when I'm talking to my clients. It's a discussion And that always comes up is finding this nice happy medium and it's a constant work in progress, but we all need to be striving for more balance. Think, you know with you know what happens around you know whether it be that Skin Cancer Awareness we become to covered up and then we create vitamin D deficiency and so pent pendulum the pendulum always swings too far wider way or the other. And I think I like your approach is very much that finding that happy medium and always striving for their happy medium have that balance between, you know, doing a bit but not too much and allowing kids to be kids, as you said, like to rather than just all this extra curriculum activities and you know, keeping up with the Joneses because such and such kids doing this, we should be doing that and allowing for the kids to go and play and enjoy playing with one another. Yeah. Yeah, and I think, as you said that, you know, looking out for the structural side, the structural signs and reminding them, I think that's key, because as parents, that's one of the key objectives of us or responsibilities is to lead our parents. So while I'm saying that we need to be walking the tour, you know, like, we need to be making sure we're doing the postural adjustments, and then reminding them

Jess Mangala:

really, you know, they see what they see. So you know, you've got a bad back or you got bad push through, it's gonna, they're gonna mirror that. But I mean, there's so many great resources out there for parents to, you know, read and learn about how they can help kids thrive and, and how they can help with that as well. So this is yeah, endless resources. Yeah,

Anthony Hartcher:

I'll probably ask you just to share those with me. And I'll include them where I share and post this episode. So yeah, just is to some of the go to places you refer parents to around how they can help their kids thrive. Yeah, so here, really? And just on that note, in terms of resources and contact information, how can parents best contact you if they're thinking their children's in need of that spinal check for United to see whether I need some support? For how can I reach you?

Jess Mangala:

Yeah, so I'll share my contact details with you. But I'm currently practising at Health Space in Randwick. And I'll also be based in my car as well. So I'll send those details to you. And I don't have a big social media at the moment, I'm working on that. That's so that's the one thing I've been steering clear of in screen time myself, but I definitely will be working towards some more online resources for myself, for my clients to see. But yeah, emails probably going to be the best. So I'll share that with you as well, I'll send that to you. So you can pop that in the Resources tab, because it'll be just Jessicamangala@gmail.com For the moment, and then I will be able to share some more resources.

Anthony Hartcher:

Fantastic. Jess, yes, you are someone that absolutely walked the talk, I know that you're on the weekend, you went to an eco retreat, which is you know, good to the environment, but also you taking time out for yourself. And, you know, walking the talk in that sense that you know, self care and looking after yourself having some time away from all devices and social media and just being with nature. So you really walk the talk and hence why I love you know, referring clients to you and I thoroughly endorse your services to anyone that's listening, or watching this because you are someone that walks the talk and very passionate about what you do and get great results with the clients that see you so well, Done Jess,

Jess Mangala:

thanks so much, Anthony. Appreciate that. You're

Anthony Hartcher:

welcome. And thank you listeners for listening in to another episode of me and my health that me and my health tap seeks to enhance and enlighten your well being. So follow us. Stay tuned for more upcoming episodes on health and wellbeing and we'll keep you in licence so that you can make better healthy and more wise decisions in relation to your health and so that you can thrive. Thank you and bye for now.