Disordered Eating - What Is It and What You Can Do!

In this episode we discuss 'disordered eating'. What is it? What to look out for? How to assist? Influencing factors! The available resources! Where and how to get help! and much much more...!!!

Although eating disorders impact people of all ages and at all life stages, research indicates that anorexia nervosa typically starts in mid-teen years; bulimia nervosa typically begins in late adolescence to early adulthood; and binge eating disorder typically begins around middle-age.

It's important to note that many patients begin with a presentation of anorexia nervosa and then transition to bulimia nervosa, binge eating disorder or OSFED (Other Specified Feeding or Eating Disorder). The majority of patients migrate between different eating disorder diagnoses, reflecting the fact that eating disorders tend to begin with dietary restraint and restriction, however control over eating often slowly breaks down and binge eating develops.

(Reference: Stern, Sharon. ‘Workshop: Trauma Informed Training and Supervision (Eating Disorders – Shaping Treatment’. Delivered Sydney Australia, 6 September 2019.)

me&my Health Up seeks to enhance and enlighten the wellbeing of others. Host Anthony Hartcher is the founder and CEO of me&my wellness which provides holistic health solutions using food is medicine, combined with a holistic, balanced, lifestyle approach. Anthony holds three bachelor degrees in Complementary Medicine; Nutrition and Dietetic Medicine; and Chemical Engineering.

Podcast Disclaimer
Any information, advice, opinions or statements within it do not constitute medical, health care or other professional advice, and are provided for general information purposes only. All care is taken in the preparation of the information in this Podcast. [Connected Wellness Pty Ltd] operating under the brand of “me&my health up”..click here for more

Transcript

Anthony Hartcher: 0:00

Hey everyone, it's Anthony Hartcher from me and my wellness. And today we're doing a new segment, it's basically going to be me and my health chats. So it's going to be talking to other professionals. And so find out more about what they do and how they serve the community. For me. The reason why I'm doing this is to connect us closer together as health professionals, and so that we understand better what each of us do and what our strengths are and who we best serve, so that we can then work together and enhance the outcomes of our clients. So today, I've got Nina Kingsford-Smith, from Healthy Happenings with Nina. And it's a pleasure to have Nina with me today. I studied with Nina at Endeavour College, we studied a Nutritional Medicine Degree together. And yeah, we got to know each other we did assignments and all that and used to share notes and collaborate and has always been a great source of recipes for me because I'm not a great cook. I've often go to Nina when I've brought something and I don't know what to do with it. Nina always helps me with coming up with innovative ways to make it taste nice and healthy. So, it's a pleasure to have Nina on and Nina specializes in disordered eating, which is commonly known as eating disorders. But I'm going to ask Nina why she refers to it as disordered eating. And yeah, without much further ado, I'd just love to bring to you and present to the world Nina Kingsford-Smith from Healthy Happenings with Nina.

Nina Kingsford-Smith: 1:42

I know oh, well, you.

Anthony Hartcher: 1:46

I'm fantastic. And yeah, I'm really excited to be learning more about your field of expertise. And let me start with I know you've had a personal experience with disordered eating. And for me, yeah, I think that would be important for the viewers to understand that you've had this personal journey. And yes, so please share that, that'd be fantastic.

Nina Kingsford-Smith: 2:12

Um, we, as you said, I specialize in disordered eating. And the reason I am so passionate about it is because I have had first hand experience with it myself. For many, many years, I would do things like, you know, counting my calories in a calorie counting app, as well as keeping a food diary, I weighed myself daily, I would track how many steps I did, how much exercise I did, or avoid social situations, because I will, you know, for fear that there won't be anything quote, unquote, healthy to eat. Just all sorts of fixations around food and my body. And I think I don't, I didn't realize it at the time. But looking back on it, now I can see that my initial decision to actually study nutrition was based in the belief that the more I knew about food, the more I could sort of manipulate it, and motivate myself to eat a certain way and for my body to look a certain way. And its was just gradually throughout the degree, learning more about food, learning more about how amazing our bodies are, and how beautiful and nourishing food is just this newfound respect for both food and for our bodies, and just how incredible they are. And, you know, having some amazing mentors on the way, just naturally, sort of shifting my perspectives around things, and through a lot of hard work as well. Like it was a very conscious effort just as naturally sort of heal those relationships, you know, with food and with my body. And yeah, it got me to a place where it's became my real passion to help other people with that. Sadly, disordered eating and eating disorders aren't going anywhere. If anything, it's just getting worse. More and more people are affected by it. Not just you know, there's a typical demographic of young females but women of all ages, men of all ages, kids younger and younger, you know, people into their 80s and 90s, suffering these sorts of things and noticing it's a really important sort of area to work on. So

Anthony Hartcher: 4:24

yeah. Do you have an understanding of why it's getting worse?

Nina Kingsford-Smith: 4:30

I think it's very multifaceted. The main reason I would attribute to getting worse is definitely society like socio cultural media being massive, especially social media. Just constantly constantly subjected to you know, what's called the thin ideal so you know, or even these days, it's more of like a strong ideal, so like strong, fit looking people and I pick, you know, this unrealistic ideal of wanting to attain that when we're not genetically made to all look the same, like, there's no way that some people can, you know, look a certain way. And such a fixation as well on how we look, when there's so much more to last and how you look. And then food being, I suppose, a way to get to that endpoint, you know, you manipulate food in a certain way to try and get to that end goal of looking a certain way. But yes, also, there's much more increasing awareness these days about health and wellness, which he said has it on one side, but on the other end, it opens up to a lot more anxieties around food, and also very clever marketing from companies taking advantage of that taking advantage of our genuine desire to get healthy or taking advantage of our insecurities. And whether that be marketing certain foods in certain ways. You know, there's gluten free sugar free paleo keto, I could go on and on, you know, in the supermarket, ads on magazines, you know, bus stop ads, segments on morning TV, things on Facebook and Instagram, it's just everywhere, and you can't really escape it. So,

Anthony Hartcher: 6:25

yeah. Is there an element of people being unaware that they're actually experiencing and going through this?

Nina Kingsford-Smith: 6:34

Certainly, yeah. I mean, personally, from my experience, I never realized that at the time, I was so unaware of, like, I knew what I was doing. As you know, I knew that I was, for example, counting calories, but I was so unaware that it was so problematic, and the impact that was having on my life, and it was restricting, it was only once I sort of naturally sort of transitioned away from it, that I could look back and see just how much it sort of had taken over my life. Especially because a lot of the habits and the thoughts and things like that around disordered eating that are problematic, so often glorified in our society. So weight loss for one, you know, somebody who has lost weight could have a very serious eating disorder or disordered eating. Yet, friends and family with all good intentions might say something like, Oh, my God, you look amazing, you've lost weight. Or whether it's exercising and exercise can be a real big part of eating disorders, using it as a compensatory sort of behavior. And it can become very obsessive as well. And you know, the harder you train, the more it's sort of seen as a good thing in our society a lot of the time. So for that reason, a lot of it can sort of be misinterpreted as not being an issue, but actually even being a good thing. Yeah,

Anthony Hartcher: 8:00

this society, or even influences seem to be huge in terms of what fit in to society fit in with peer groups. What age group is most vulnerable to this?

Nina Kingsford-Smith: 8:16

Oh, that's a really good question. There are it will often depend on the eating disorder. So there are different types of eating disorders. And if it is a specific eating disorder, we're talking about, like, I believe it's binge eating disorder. is more of an onset later in life. Okay, well, as typically, it will be, I think, I could be wrong here. So don't quote me on it. But bulimia will onset first. That may then transition into anorexia might be the other way around. I'm sorry, I would need to double check that and then transitioning into binge eating disorder. They're sort of the three main eating disorders. Enter

Anthony Hartcher: 9:08

Can you just help the viewers understand, I guess the definition of those eating disorders.

Nina Kingsford-Smith: 9:14

Yeah, so I will also, um, distinguish between eating disorder and disordered eating, they are quite different things. So someone with an eating disorder may work, they will definitely have disordered eating habits and behaviors that someone who shows disordered eating habits and behaviors won't necessarily have an eating disorder. It all comes down to the frequency and the severity of it, right. And therefore, it's fits into a certain diagnostic criteria called DSM five. And that sort of material is used to diagnose eating disorders. Okay. And that's very specific set of criteria depending on what the eating disorder is right. Um, but someone may still have disordered eating but maybe not. So they will have very similar habits and thoughts around food and eating. Yeah, but it's the same severity or frequency, okay, as some disorder might have. Okay, um, yeah, so eating disorders, they are classed as a group of mental illnesses. It's not actually classed as physical illness but a mental illness and but it will have serious mental and physical consequences. Right. The three main ones is anorexia nervosa, bulimia nervosa, binge eating disorder. And then there is the rest of class as what's the acronym often, so otherwise specified feeding and eating disorders. And that could include anything from there's orthorexia nervosa, which is a big growing one now, which is that sort of obsession around clean eating and only eating healthy foods. There's night feeding syndrome which affects the sleep waits wake cycle and it's literally waking throughout the night and eating. There is you know, there's there's a lot there's one that's called Daya, bulimia, which relates to people with diabetes, and the way that they use insulin to regulate their weight. Pika, wonderful rumination disorder, lots and lots of different things under that. Yeah, yeah.

Anthony Hartcher: 11:32

And so with the disordered eating, it's about picking up those symptoms early or the, I guess, the behaviors early. During that supporting the person before it actually becomes an eating disorder, which is a lot harder to treat is

Nina Kingsford-Smith: 11:53

exactly 100% Spot on. So I really like to work with clients when they're still in the disordered eating stage, for the exact reason that you said to catch it before it sort of develops into a fully grown eating disorder, per se. Really, really important to, you know, to start to work on it as soon as possible.

Anthony Hartcher: 12:17

And of those things you want to capture that, you know, in terms of disordered, disordered eating behaviors? Is it like the fixation on calories? Like calorie counting?

Nina Kingsford-Smith: 12:28

Yeah, yes. Um, if you like, I can go through sort of like a list of what? Yeah, it might be. So it's a general fixation on eating food body image is sort of where it's sent us from and how that manifests might be so fixation on counting calories, or macros, even certain language around foods. So seeing food, which a lot of us do anyway, society sort of does, but you know, as good or bad. Or whether you're good or bad for eating a certain food, cutting up food groups, or certain foods is a massive one. And that's where a lot of food rules and rituals can come in. So you know, not eating gluten, not eating carbs, after a certain time at night time. only eating one serve, you know, bread a day, all that sort of stuff, and avoiding sudden circle avoiding any sorts of situations. So whether that's like social situations around food, because of not wanting to eat in front of others, or fearing that there's not going to be food that you can eat, that's, you know, healthy, they're using food to deal with emotions on a regular basis. You know, emotional eating is an often like a, I guess you could say, a natural coping mechanism, but doing that regularly, and using it sort of as an escape from your emotions, be really big, restricting yourself around food, and that will often then just inevitably lead to overeating with food later on. Engaging in compensatory sort of behavior regularly. So, you know, obsessively exercising to counteract the amount of calories eaten. Yeah, all sorts of things.

Anthony Hartcher: 14:30

Okay, and how do you work with clients that come to you and they're, you know, they're exhibiting some of these behaviors? What would be your the approach in terms of how you

Nina Kingsford-Smith: 14:42

Yeah, that's good question. Um, so I take a what's called a non diet approach. And that really, that works on a lot of empowerment for the client, so empowering them to be able to make their decisions around food and develop a more positive or definitely develop a more positive relationship with food and with their bodies. So instead of focusing on external cues around food, focusing on internal cues instead, and you become the own expert of your body, and your health, like, our bodies are these incredibly smart things, and we're all so different, like, once we can listen into our body's internal cues, and which I can go into in a second examples of that, we can really start to feel a lot more empowered. And that's where I feel like the magic really happens with healing your relationship with food, because instead of relying on something, an external cue, that is what the diet sort of approach focuses on. So that would be, you know, eat three square meals a day, eating according to the clock, so you know, oh, it's lunchtime, I'm not really hungry, but it's lunch. So I should eat. Oh, I'm eating, you know, X amount of calories in a day. So I'll count them. And you know, I'm hungry, but I've reached my limit. So I'm not going to eat any more, those sorts of things very restrictive. It's an all or nothing sort of mentality. The non diet approach focuses a lot more around mindful and intuitive eating, so that they are different, but similar things, they sort of complement one another. And that helps you focus on internal cues. So that would be your hunger and fullness levels. It's figuring out what hunger is for you. So you know, for a lot of people that would feel like fullness in your belly. Sorry, that would be fullness, hunger would feel like an emptiness in your belly, it might be a gurgling stomach, might be a bit of lightheadedness, you might have been experiencing a little bit of anxiety, when you get really hungry, it's different for everybody. So it's tuning into that, it's being able to recognize the difference between physical hunger. So those sorts of signs we just talked about, and emotional hunger. And, you know, there's ways to, I work with clients to figure out the difference between those. So all sorts of things around around that sort of aspect of it. And just really helping them shift their relationship with their bodies as well. So whether that's doing more a more lifestyle sort of approach like reframing exercises, joyful movement, and just finding ways of actually really enjoy it and move exercises, like a celebration of what their bodies can do, not what they should look like. All of those sorts of things, a lot of education as well, around food itself, and developing skills, so cooking skills, and those sorts of things. And I believe it's really, really important to also work in conjunction as part of a wider healthcare team. So because eating disorders, and disordered eating is so complex and multifaceted, really, really important to work alongside a good doctor and a mental health care worker as well. So usually a therapist or counselor to work on the the issues underlying that, I suppose if there's any coexisting mental, sorry, coexisting health conditions as well. So gut issues are a big one. Anxiety and depression and big ones, nutritional deficiencies. So working with those things as well addressing those factors. Okay. Yeah.

Anthony Hartcher: 18:54

And you mentioned earlier, just about all these sort of satiety society impacts. And I'm just thinking in terms of like, there'll be viewers that, you know, don't associate it, you know, with eating disorders or disordered eating, but what can I guess, the average person do to help change this perception that, you know, we should be fixated in the how we look, and, you know, so I guess what can the average person change in their behavior or in terms of how they talk, you know, communicate, you mentioned communication was one of these things that in terms of, you know, when we comment on how someone looks, and I ate and, you know, then you you're complimenting them that yes, you should lose, you know, lose more weight, and I'll give you more compliments. Yeah, so he got some tips around just how we as citizens, so toxic society can go out there and do good.

Nina Kingsford-Smith: 19:59

Yeah, yeah. exactly the examples you gave are perfect places to start. So really comes back to checking yourself, like, really become aware of the language you use around food and the judgments you make around people's bodies. So the language, you use your own food, that's a massive one, you know, food is food, it's not, doesn't have, it's not a moral dilemma, it's not good or bad, you're not good or bad for eating it. So removing those sorts of that sort of language around food or like guilty pleasure, like, is something that would really gets me How can something be pleasurable that makes you feel guilty? It's just ridiculous, or guilt free treats, cheat days and cheat meals? like who are you cheating? Like, what are you cheating? Clean Eating infers that other food is dirty, you know, that sort of language is just, it's thanks to clever marketing and stuff like that. But it comes down to us as individuals to stop that continuing on, you know, everyday vernacular, and to stop perpetuating that sort of language and the connotations that go along with it. So really start to become aware of the language you use, and stop using those sorts of that sort of language around it. As well as the way you talk about your own body and other people's bodies, judgments that you make around people and their health and their lifestyle, based purely on how they look. Yes, it is not a reflection, there are so many things that go into the size that someone is, and their size is not a reflection of their health. Health can exist at Every Size, to haze Health at Every Size is another approach that I take. We can talk about that another day. And then also look at where your media exposure, so gone to your Facebook, Instagram Instagrams, a big one, look at who you follow, like, what sort of ideals that they spreading? What sort of pictures are they posting, unfollow anybody who makes you feel less than good? Follow inspirational and positive sorts sort of accounts that do make you feel good, and the body inclusive, and that a non diet can be like, I can send you a list if you want to. If you'd like to post a list.

Anthony Hartcher: 22:43

Absolutely it please, please do, Nina, because I think we as citizens can do a whole lot more to stop this property nation, as you mentioned, and you know, I'd love to be that one of those people. Because, you know, in the past, I must say that, you know, I have referred to food as being good or bad. And

Nina Kingsford-Smith: 23:02

we'll do it, you know, and to come aware of it. It's yeah.

Anthony Hartcher: 23:06

And, and, yes, and I think it's important for us nutritionist to get the language right, so that we're not propagating that incorrect message. So please, please do share that. I'm just thinking also, for those ones that know they have a loved one, how they could best support someone that they know with either disordered eating or eating disordered. And if you've got any advice as to help, like, if you if you're recognizing that behavior mentioned earlier around disordered eating, how's a good way to intercept and sort of suggest that it would be good for them to get some help early? Like, I'm just trying to think how do we because, you know, working in the mental health space is can sometimes be challenging to, I guess, influence them to make the right decision for them, and you're looking in their best interests. And it's Yeah, so I'm just wondering if you've got some tips in this area as to how viewers could potentially help someone that they recognize that are getting a bit obsessive either that orthorexia sort of obsession around health or whether they're excessively fixated on calorie counting or the way they look. And yeah,

Nina Kingsford-Smith: 24:24

yeah, yeah, really good question. Um, what else say first as well, we didn't. I talked a lot about sort of the behavioral signs around, you know, indicating that someone might be struggling with issues around food, but there are other signs that might help a loved one, recognize that something might be going on. So in terms of physical complaints, I think I mentioned before, gut issues are a big complaint. So whether that's bloating or constipation, vomiting, reflux, there some cases ones, signs of dehydration, so dry skin, hair and nails. And that can also be a sign of malnutrition, heart palpitations, or dizziness, even fainting on a regular basis, there is for when things start to become a little bit more serious. So for example, if someone is vomiting regularly, discoloration of their teeth, and even what's called I think it's Russell's signs, and it's sort of calluses on your nails from purging from self induced vomiting. lanugo, which is an excess growth of hair, sort of, like, you know, when babies have that sort of excess later in here. And that's when someone loses so much weight to the point where their bodies sort of growing an extra layer of hair to try and protect them in terms of thermal regulation, in terms of keeping their body a certain temperature. Um, menstrual irregularities are another big one, primarily a mineral, well, that's when you lose your period, you stop getting a period, I'm feeling cold all the time. And then, psychologically, as well, a lot of isolation, obsessive compulsive sort of behaviors, anxiety, depression, a generally being withdrawn from emotions, also, over dependency on other people. So yeah, I just want to cover a few more of those ons, because I know that those can also help that one sort of pick up maybe if there are issues.

Anthony Hartcher: 26:47

Absolutely. And you're set mentioned before was that social anxiety so that thinking twice or, or sort of saying, yes, you'll go to something but not turning up, or, you know, like, so that it because you're fearful as to what foods gonna be there, and whether I'll be judged for eating us or whether it be something I can eat and, and so therefore, you pull back from all these social engagements, which is really important from that mental health perspective. So I think it really liked how you highlighted a number of key areas that I would have never thought of such as those gut issues that you mentioned, certain signs to look out for, that if you know, someone is doing actively, you know, on a regular basis, the sort of, you know, the purging and behavior. So, I think that's really comprehensive. And, you know, it's been very insightful for me to have a much better understanding as to how complicated and multifaceted this really is. Yeah. And how much society has to answer for around this, this whole round image? Because, you know, primarily, you're saying that it's very driven by wanting to look a particular way. And people then taking that to say, well, how can I do that? Well, then, you know, I've got to address my eating, I need to address my exercise, and I just get obsessive over one or the other or both. Yeah, yeah. And took it to a point that, you know, really becomes severe mental, you know, concern.

Nina Kingsford-Smith: 28:26

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, there are definitely other other than society, there are definitely other factors that contribute to it. And it can often be much more than or not even involved with things like body image. Um, so genetics is a really, really well can be a big factor as well. Especially, there has been more education, sorry, more research around genetics in regards to anorexia, right. There was actually a really big study done in I think it was last year 2019. And it was around 66,000 participants, and I think around sick I've got it here. 16,000 cases of anorexia, people with diagnosed anorexia nervosa and 55,000 controls, and they studied their genes, and they actually found eight genetic what's called genetic loci, okay. That actually relate back to that a linked with anorexia. So for example, I think one was to do with the role that serotonin plays, right, which is very transmitter. Another one other ones had to do with personality traits like perfectionism and obsession, ality, which I found really, really interesting. And they there was one study that said, female relatives of people with anorexia are about level times more likely to develop it than somebody who doesn't have a female relative with anorexia. For people with bulimia, I believe it's about four times more likely to develop it. And just eating disorders in general, if you do have a first degree relative, so that's like a parent or a sibling who has an eating disorder, you are more at risk of developing it. Even for example, one of the more one of the less common eating disorders, I mentioned at the start called night eating syndrome, that there's a gene called P or one, I think, is the gene. And that impacts your circadian rhythm, so your sleep wake cycle. And that's been shown to have a link with that specific eating disorder. Which is really, really interesting. And another really big factor that is a very common thread throughout a lot of eating disorders is trauma. So whether that's childhood trauma, there is something called aces, which is adverse childhood experiences. And they will be certain things like neglect, abuse, parental separation, bullying, isolation as a child, which many people experience. But so for example, about 83% of people with binge eating disorder report that they experienced maltreatment during childhood, about 24% of people with anorexia nervosa report childhood sexual abuse. So there is a very big link as well with trauma and eating disorders.

Anthony Hartcher: 31:46

And do you think some of the rationale raising them out it's a bit of a long shot, but it would have been because if they've suffered that sort of abuse, they, they, I guess, it's a way in which they can control their actions. It's a way of which you can certainly get attention. So if it's, you know, if it's attention you're seeking, you can certainly get it through controlling, you know, your food and lack of eating and refusing to eat and, and the other one else, thinking of potential that could be a consequence of, you know, being mistreated, is the fact that you are sabotaging yourself. So You Think You're the problem, and hence, you're punishing yourself. I'm just, I guess, long shots as to why that may occur? Yeah.

Nina Kingsford-Smith: 32:42

Yeah. This is where it crosses over a little bit more into, like, what a psychologist would be addressing with somebody. Which I try to be very careful not to, you know, I'm very careful not to cross that line, I suppose when I'm talking to when I'm working with clients with this sort of thing. But yeah, definitely all the things that you have said, I think a lot of it also, with, you know, reading about it, and hearing people who have, you know, first hand experience those things, talking about it, I'm coming down to other factors like control using food. So if it's more, say, for example, binge eating disorder, which is that over eating, using food to protect themselves right away, protect themselves from certain emotions and things like that, that they may not be dealing with that result of this trauma that they've experienced. And also, a lot of the trauma actually relates to epigenetics. So the switching on and off of certain genes. There's been some really interesting research around intergenerational trauma or historical trauma. So that psycho you know, collective trauma experienced across generations within a certain group in society. So that might be for example, the Holocaust, or, you know, African Americans during history in America, and how intergenerational trauma can actually be a big factor in eating disorders as well. And how that switches on and off certain epigenetics that Do you know, come back to like coping mechanisms and coping skills and things like that, which is really interesting as well.

Anthony Hartcher: 34:40

I was also thinking then when you mentioned epigenetics is the influence on parents on their children, because we spoke about earlier how the language you know, the if we use inappropriate language, it can certainly misguide or mislead people. And I'm just thinking also with children, not only are they listening to the language of their parent So the parents might be saying, Don't eat that that's bad for you or, you know, eat this, it's good for you. And, you know, this, this will make you fat. And the other thing is that children will imitate their parents behavior, because they're role models. And I'm thinking if, if the mother or father is saying, I can't eat that will make me fat, and obsessing over that sort of, I guess, approach to the way in which they're eating the children copies, the parents, I'm thinking there's a lot around, you know, the parents can do in order to help.

Nina Kingsford-Smith: 35:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah, like, by no means do I want to shame parents or tell anybody that they're not doing a good job, it's nothing to do with that, but the impact that parents can have on their children, especially from such a young age, you know, using food as a reward, you know, if you're, if you do this, like go tidy room, and then you get a lolly, or you know, whatever it is, or you have to eat everything on your place plate. So it's forcing them to ignore, like, kids have the perfect example of intuitive eating, you know, like, one day, a kid will just go off to school with a glass of milk, that's all they want. The next day, they'll eat like, three eggs and three slices of toast, and they'll just keep eating. Or they'll just leave one mouthful of food left on their plate. And they say nothing done for them. Naturally, so intuitive. And then it's, it's as we grow up, that we forget those forget to listen to those natural, intuitive internal cues. And we start listening more to that those external cues. So if we can really encourage kids, through the way that we, you know, through the way that parents, the way that grownups act around kids, encourage them to keep listening to those sort of intuitive messages, those internal cues, and to not burden them with all those, you know, societal messages, like a mom saying, I'm too fat, I'm not eating carbs anymore. If you think about what message that gives to, like their eight year old daughter, for example, who started to hear other messages like that from school. Um, you know, that's just one example. But all sorts of examples, like, it does have a really big impact.

Anthony Hartcher: 37:19

It's true. And certainly, as a father, I've done some of the things that you suggesting, you know, that we shouldn't do? And, and, yes, I'm thinking, you know, where's it come from, it's come from my parents, you know, like, so, you know, like, with, I guess, our parents, parents, you know, experienced the Great Depression, and, you know, so when there was limited, you know, limited food available, that obviously, people really appreciated what they had in front of them, and would, you know, encourage their children to eat all of it. And that's been passed on from generation to generation, the generation that eat everything on your plate, you know, like, it takes away that intuitive nature of eating, like your setting. The other thing I'm thinking that parents probably get concerned about is when they're saying that their children are just picking or not hungry, is that they're thinking that they're going to be malnourished and, and become sick, and they're looking in the best interests of the kid. And, you know, they're so they, and then they say, Well, you need to eat it, you have to eat it. And it's a it's a, it's a difficult, it's really challenging, you know, from that parent's perspective,

Nina Kingsford-Smith: 38:28

it is a very fine line. And it is complex, you know, and, you know, I gave that example, but then, you know, there are other reasons that a child might not be eating, it might not just be because they're listening to the internal hunger cues, it could be, there are actually a few eating disorders that are more to do more common in children. And that might be related to, you know, not because of, they've already got issues around weight or you know, negative body image or anything, but it could be other things that are going on, perhaps more medically. So there's one called rumination disorder, and I'm not too familiar with the causes of it, but that's basically where usually very young kids will repeatedly chew, swallow record and regurgitate their food and then shoot again, swallow it, regurgitate it, and they just keep doing that. For one that's called. It's avoidant, restrictive, feeding eating disorder, I think. And that's essentially like a really extreme form of fussy eating. So someone might only be eating like five different foods, they might actually only have five foods that they eat. So you know, there are lots of factors to consider. I suppose it isn't just that simple. Like it's, I guess it's never simple But yeah, going back to that example of, you know, kid not eating enough that there is a lot of what we would say, I think as a kid not eating enough, there is a lot to consider,

Anthony Hartcher: 40:09

and probably the perfect example of where they should go and seek professional help if they're concerned, as opposed to letting it manifest over, you know, get worse and worse, and, you know, result in some sort of chronic condition is, yeah, they seek help early on, and so really leads me into, you know, asking you as to how viewers can connect with you, if they, you know, got someone that they would like to refer to you that, you know, could benefit from your service that you described earlier? Or, or just wanting to have a chat is to, you know, happy you know, how you could help them further with, you know, health or someone loved one. So, yeah, how do people get in touch with you, Nina,

Nina Kingsford-Smith: 40:51

um, my website, which is just my name, Nina Kingsford Smith, all one word.com.au. I'm also over on Instagram, would probably be the main sort of social media platform I use, which is healthy happenings with Nina. And I'm also on Facebook, and my which is the same healthy happening with Nina. And my contact details are on all of this. So feel free to shoot me an email or give me a call, I'm more than happy to have a chat with anyone. And I'll also mention a few really good resources as well two websites. One is the butterfly Foundation, which is a organization that specializes with eating disorders. And another one is NEDC, which I think is the National Eating Disorder Collaboration. Okay, they have some really fantastic resources. Again, I can use

Anthony Hartcher: 41:55

that's fantastic. So the links to how they can connect with you. And then furthermore, the links to these others support things like the butterfly Foundation,

Nina Kingsford-Smith: 42:06

and I'll pop in there, there's one about how to talk to a loved one, if you think that they do have an eating disorder, or they are struggling with disordered eating some really, really good pointers about how to approach that, how to start the conversation, what sort of things to say. So I'll pop that in there as well. There's probably

Anthony Hartcher: 42:24

one more thing that I want to add Nina is if someone doesn't have you know, anyone that they know with a potential eating disorder, or the or themselves are not going through it, then certainly Nene is a great contact for healthy eating that is absolutely delicious. So all those social media contacts such as our Instagram feed and Facebook feed are full of amazing recipes that I'm constantly baking and cooking myself not only delicious, that they actually taste delicious, and they really healthy and it's a great way I think, you know, cooking is a great way to connect and embrace food and, and enjoy it. And so I think it does an amazing job with just just creativity around use of ingredients and making it really tasty and healthy and nutritious. So thoroughly recommend everyone to connect with Nina and you'll get so much lovely food recipes. It's the best. So, um, and also a pleasure, Nina, and I really want to thank you for your time today, because you've just given me amazing insight myself really helpful from a parent point of view from a practitioner point of view. And obviously, for the viewers, it's been amazing in terms of you know, how you've brought that view that it's multifaceted, and there's many aspects to it, it's you know, it's quite complex. And, and you shared with the viewers as to how they could first of all, identify it, be more aware of it, and then second as to, you know, some of the practical tips as to how they can approach the subject. So, I really, yeah, greatly thank you for your time and your expertise and looking forward to us, you know, continuing working together and serving our clients. So that and also spreading the word Nina, you know, as to hearing more about what you do and how, as a society, society, practices word, we can, we can do so much more. And you know, as parents, we can do so much more. And as friends and family, we can do so much more.

Nina Kingsford-Smith: 44:36

Well, thank you to you as well. I really enjoyed it. And like you said, any sort of opportunity I can have to help spread awareness around this sort of thing I'm really passionate about. So I really, really appreciate the opportunity to talk about it.

Anthony Hartcher: 44:48

Pleasure, Nina, we're definitely going to have you back on again and get more deeper into some of these areas that you mentioned that you just touched on and there is so much more to it. So I'd certainly Yeah, we'll have you back on and And viewers if you've got any questions or comments for Nina feel free to you can ask them by me or go direct to Nina. And certainly comment as to what you'd like to hear more about what more you know further insight like to Nina to share and we can certainly do that at a light at night for you. So thanks everyone for tuning in. And thank you so much Nina. It's been an absolute delight to be with you again. Thank you.

Nina Kingsford-Smith: 45:26

Okay. Bye.