How to Move On After a Relationship Breakdown with Leanne Kanzler

COVID has been the catalyst for many relationship breakdowns. A study found that 42% of people had experienced a negative change in their relationship with their partner. In this episode of me&my health up, we discuss relationships with registered Psychologist Leanne Kanzler. Leanne knows what it is like to be divorced after her 17-year marriage ended in 2010. She discovered firsthand how divorce impacted the men she dated. This experience planted the seed for her to focus her work on men.

Leanne has been a registered Psychologist in Sydney for 12 years. She is also a qualified Life Coach. Leanne decided to branch out to work with men in the divorce space after she saw a huge gap in the services available to men and the desperate need for men to seek help. She recently added a program for women after several women contacted her to ask "why not women too".

Leanne is now married to a great guy and loves creating a positive impact on the world, one person at a time!

How to best connect with Leanne:

Website: www.leannekanzler.com

Instagram @The_Divorce_Coach_For_Men

leanne@reconnectwellness.com.au

About me&my Health Up & Host

me&my Health Up seeks to enhance and enlighten the wellbeing of others. Host Anthony Hartcher is the CEO of me&my wellness which provides holistic health solutions using food is medicine, combined with a holistic, balanced, lifestyle approach. Anthony holds three bachelor's degrees in Complementary Medicine; Nutrition and Dietetic Medicine; and Chemical Engineering.

Credits
Podcast editing: Ivan Saldana

Podcast Disclaimer
Any information, advice, opinions or statements within it do not constitute medical, health care or other professional advice, and are provided for general information purposes only. All care is taken in the preparation of the information in this Podcast. [Connected Wellness Pty Ltd] operating under the brand of “me&my health up”..click here for more

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Transcript

Anthony Hartcher 0:00 
Covid has been the catalyst for many relationship breakdowns. A study found that 42% of people had experienced a negative change in their relationship with their partner. In this episode of me&my health up, we'll be discussing relationships with registered psychologist Leanne Kanzler. I'm your host Anthony Hartcher, clinical nutritionist, and lifestyle medicine specialist. Help health up seeks to enhance and enlighten the well being of others. Our guests Leanne knows what it's like to be divorced. After her, 17-year marriage ended in 2010.

She discovered firsthand how divorce impacted the men she dated. This experience planted the seed for her to focus her work on men. Leanne has been a registered psychologist in Sydney for 12 years. She is a qualified life coach. Leanne decided to branch out to work with men in the divorce space after she saw a huge gap in the services available to men and their desperate need for men to seek help. She recently added for women after several women contacted her to ask why not me to number one? Why not women too. So Leanne added women to her program, Leanne is now married to a great guy and loves creating a positive impact on the world one person at a time. So welcome, Leanne, how are you today?

Leanne Kanzler 1:27 
Hi, Anthony. Thank you so much. I'm great. Big cold today but doing good.

Anthony Hartcher 1:33 
It is because you're Western Sydney Archer. So I can imagine its temperatures like a few degrees lower.

Leanne Kanzler 1:39 
Yes, probably.

Anthony Hartcher 1:42 
So just my usual, last starting question for listeners well and truly clear about. I love hearing a person's story about how they've arrived at what they're doing today. So can you please share how you've arrived at what you're doing and what you're specialising in today?

Leanne Kanzler 2:01 
Yeah, well, it's been a bit of a process. And as you mentioned, they did all start back after I got my divorce and I started dating people, I did the whole online stuff, and I saw, how much hurt and pain there was going on and it really made me wonder how anyone even got to date again. There's just so much anger and frustration, and I can see straight through it. So I was very fortunate in that and I know a lot of other women, I can't see through that and they just take it on board as their own stuff.

So after playing around actually in the dating scene, as in helping people with dates, and how to, you know, make their profile better, and all that sort of stuff, it then kind of migrated to working with men who have been in, in a divorce situation and that really started out of some of the clients that I had, and just seeing how desperate they were, with the whole system, you know, that the court system, the frustration, the pain, and I heard over and over again, nobody knows what I'm going through that they kind of separated themselves from their family or friends. Because they didn't want to talk about it, or they lost family and friends out of the separation.

You know, because people take sides, you can't really help that and I just felt so alone and so isolated, they had given so much to their relationship and now they didn't know who they were, where to start, what to do and so from there, and I guess during COVID as well it did get worse but also even before that there was a lot of stuff helping women, I saw on LinkedIn and in social media and on the news, a lot of talk about helping women and which is fantastic because that is 100% needed. But this is the other side of me that just kept saying well what about men?

Men are struggling to man the rate of suicide in men is much higher than in women. Men are taught to be quiet and to not talk about their stuff whereas women are encouraged, encouraged, encouraged and I thought okay, right. Well, there's no point me just hit me here winging about it. Let's actually do something about it and the boss coach for men was born.

Anthony Hartcher 4:20 
Yeah, like when I think about that because you know, when women are encouraged to speak about things and you know, men got to toughen up and move on. I find that is part of the problem because men feel that they cannot seek help and if they do that they're seen as weak and that's probably why you know, there are more resources available to women because there's a need that's known about.

Whereas you spotted that and now in the or the unforeseen need like the iceberg effect and really help to fulfill that gap. So you know, I'm really glad that you, you found that gap and are out there actively helping and promoting your services to men, because it's certainly much needed. You know, with the work I've done with men, it is one of the struggles they have is speaking out about their challenges and hardships, after, you know, I guess years and years have been told, you know, men don't cry, or boys don't cry.

Leanne Kanzler 5:26 
Which is really, such a load of rubbish, just to be blunt with that one. Men are human to men feel the same way women feel. The only reason that they appear like they don't is that they're taught not to and I still hear all the time, I don't, I don't cry, and don't I share my emotions and I still work with couples and one of the biggest complaints from women is my husband does not talk to me.

I don't know what's going on in his head and, you know, I get them and teach them how to how to talk and it makes a huge difference once they, once they start. It's like, oh, okay, this wasn't so bad after all. I'm not I'm not going to get caned or whipped or whatever, because I'm actually telling you, I'm struggling. Wow.

It actually can help and unfortunately, there are still people out there who can't handle men, men, and their emotions. But that's their stuff, that's their problem. You know, they need to learn how to how to receive that information as well. It's really, it really is a, we could talk about this all day and I'm aware that we're on a time limit. So I'm kind of going okay, don't go off on a tangent here.

Anthony Hartcher 6:42 
I think it's an important tangent because it's that communication piece that I often see is the breakdown, or, you know, one of the key causes of you know, any relationship breakdown or any issue really between humans is communication is, it's always there as an underlying issue as to, you know, what might have fueled hurt or, and so I'm really keen to explore this communication issue and how you help couples that or where the man is not communicating in the relationship. So, you know, what is the tips that you can help provide the men that are listening to how to communicate more effectively with a partner?

Leanne Kanzler 7:25 
Okay, so I guess the first thing is to teach their partner how to, to communicate with them. Often when somebody is quiet, the other person will feel the space by talking. So if a man can, first of all, say to his partner, I need you to listen and what that means is, I don't want you to say anything, I want you to just not talk. Because if he starts to say something, and when he is he's silent while he's thinking about what to say next, and she jumps in, the conversations done because he's been cut off. So a lot of women want to just jump in, and they're not patient in hearing what needs to be said.

So women have to slow down and open the door for the man to speak and I guess the other thing is for men to really understand that their silence is a huge problem for their partner, a huge problem, a much bigger problem, than them actually telling their partner that there's something wrong. So a lot of men have this kind of mindset that I'm not going to tell my partner that the business is struggling or I'm struggling because I don't want to stress her out.

Come on, guys, the girls know that you're stressed out. It's all over your face. So silence is a massive red flag that something is wrong, and by you not telling them it actually makes the problem worse. They become naggy and nitpicking, what's wrong? why don't you talk to me? All that sort of stuff, they might start worrying that you're having an affair, they might start questioning you about that sort of stuff and it just makes things bigger and bigger and bigger.

So to be vulnerable, a lot of guys think being vulnerable is a weakness and it's actually not because it takes a tremendous amount of courage and strength to tell someone that you're not coping, because you actually don't know how they're going to respond to that and quite honestly, not everyone will respond well. But that doesn't mean that you have to shut up and not say anything, it just means that you have to find a better person to talk to whether there be one mate, one guy, one friend that you can maybe just you know test the waters with and that's another bit of a tip is to start small.

Start talking a little bit about what's going on and see how receptive the person is that you're talking to, if they take that on board, then keep going. Don't kind of lurch into the biggest issue that you have to test the waters because if that person shuts you down, then you're gonna believe that you can't talk anymore.

Anthony Hartcher 10:09 
So it's yeah, it's essential finding that right person and that requires a bit of trial and error, but in that trial and error process to really start small, and then build on that, as opposed to going straight for the deep dive, and then you know, losing the person who is, so I really just sort of, as you said, just testing them a bit and then if they're responding, well, then, you know, to keep sharing, and to share openly. So just in terms of this, you know, men, like they think I don't want to trouble my partner, you know, I don't want to stress them out.

Is that because men have this, you know, understanding that they're the protector, or the, you know, I guess that's where they fit into society, as the protector and once upon a time was also the provider, but that's now changing. But so this protection role is that the underlying belief that, you know, stops him from, you know, don't want to stress is a person out because I, I see it with my dad, I see it with myself, in terms of yeah, not, not wanting to share because, you know, not wanting to pass on that stress to, you know, my, my wife. So.

Leanne Kanzler 11:26 
Definitely, I think it's a very unconscious thing, often, often we just go, oh, well, I don't want to burden other people with my problems, I don't want to look weak, I don't want to appear like I can't cope with this, they're not going to be able to help me anyway. It's just going to cause more problems because now we're all going to be worried about it.

There's, there are so many different reasons, but I think the underlying issue really is the old way of men handle all their problems on their own and, and that's all there is to it and very slowly, it's changing and it's important to know that, you know, there's that little saying that goes a problem shared, is a problem halved and sometimes just talking about your problem, even in saying the words, you can solve the problem yourself.

You know, I don't know if you've ever had that experience, where you start to ask a question, and it's like, I can you don't worry, I know the answer and it's just, I don't know, it connects to a different part of the brain that helps you to solve the problem by speaking it out loud. But yeah, I think people really have to understand that talking about an issue is not complaining or winning or, or being weak or anything like that. It's just being open and honest and that's a beautiful thing.

Anthony Hartcher 12:54 
And think about you know, in terms of what we encourage in the corporate world in terms of how to solve problems, it's bringing the team together and putting the problem on the table and then getting you to know people to bounce ideas around with one another and that's it as you said, you know that the problem is therefore halved in a sense that you know, that one person is carrying that problem but then the whole team chips in and help solve it and work as a team to get it resolved and, and I certainly felt that from when I went through my divorce.

Because I was too scared to tell anyone and I was carrying this, you know, chip on my shoulder, so to speak, that monkey on my back and once I started sharing it with one person, I thought I feel so much better and then I started sharing with more people and then I think you're right, in terms of the problems is just hard by just you know, sharing it and vocalising it and it felt like it diminished over time, the more I shared it, and I go,t I actually got more comfortable sharing the story. The first,t the first one was the hardest.

Leanne Kanzler 13:58 
Yeah, definitely. That's great to hear and I think it also normalises it so if you keep it all to yourself, you feel like you're the only person that feels this way, no one gets me or that sort of thing. But when you start talking about it, you realise that, okay, 1000s of other people feel exactly the same way as me. There are other people going through what I'm going through, and now it's going to be exactly the same because everyone's an individual, but to know that there is grief and loneliness and anger and frustration and sadness, all of those emotions and to know that well that's normal, actually and I'm not losing my mind and yeah, okay, I can get through this because for these other guys got through this then shit maybe there's hope for me too.

Anthony Hartcher 14:50 
It's very true because, you know, if that if a person comes up to me and goes, I've just separated from my partner. You know, with my experience, I can say why can relate to you because, you know, I went through the same thing and then you know, straight away, we've both shared something that we didn't know, that one another was experiencing and, you know, we have that I guess shared common ground, which we can then support one another. Because, you know, I certainly know what it's like and but if I, that person hadn't approached me and told me what they were going through, then I would have never known and you're right, it's so true about that normalising because we unless we share, we don't know what other people are experiencing.

Leanne Kanzler 15:34 
No, and men tenters held things in so much that it can really affect their jobs as well, or their business if they have their own business and I've seen guys who have been on the brink of losing their job because they're struggling at work, they're struggling to get the work done and then they kind of performance managed and then they come in because they absolutely desperate and we do the work together and you know, a few weeks later, I yeah, I'm back on top of a lot of trouble anymore.

One guy even got a promotion and I was like, great, this is awesome and that's what really makes me go, Oh, yes, I'm doing the right thing here, I'm actually, these guys really are getting something from this, they're starting to understand that they are okay and they can do it, they have that support, they're given the opportunity to offload and get some advice and work on your emotions and it's awesome.

Anthony Hartcher 16:34 
It's because I was just thinking of that snowball effect, because you mentioned you know, that that person who you know, is struggling at home or you know, in a relationship and now is taking that into the workplace, and now their work is suffering, you know, as a consequence of them, you know, struggling at home and I'm thinking that happens in reverse.

When you seek help, like you said that, that, you know, when men come to you, they start talking about the problem and it starts eating that problem, you start coming up with solutions and then that snowballs into, as you said, like a positive promotion. So you know, it can snowball either way, and we'd much prefer it for, you know, for people to snowball in the positive direction as opposed to you know, spiraling, spiraling downwards.

Leanne Kanzler 17:19 
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely, and I think we have to all acknowledge that we humans, we don't just operate in boxes, which is what a lot of guys tried to do. They'd like, okay, yep, not, that's my marriage that's over so put that over there is burnt out. But it doesn't work like that, everything. It's like a spiderweb, everything's connected and if that anchor has been disconnected, then everything else is wobbly.

Anthony Hartcher 17:48 
It's so true and that's how our systems operate within our bodies. All the systems are interconnected, they don't operate as silos. So yeah, so it's very true, what you're explaining in terms of how life is so interconnected, interrelated, that you can't just box it away and just think it's done. It's, you know unless you're, you've resolved it, you're carrying it with you and it's carrying the old baggage into the next relationship and that's my next question is, so if someone has just left a relationship, or is leaving a relationship, what's the best way to I guess, start over again?

Leanne Kanzler 18:28 
Not jumping into another relationship. So you know, a lot of people are afraid to be alone, which can lead to them jumping into a new relationship way too soon and my feeling is that we really need to get to know ourselves who we are, what do I want for myself? What do I like to do? Can I love myself? Can I actually acknowledge that I am important enough to be in a relationship? And so jumping into a new relationship, when your heart is still shattered, you've got all the divorce crap to deal with the legal the parenting stuff, all of that.

That's never a good thing so giving yourself the time and space to heal is so important. If you liken it to an injury, you know, if you break your arm, you get the cast-off, and the next day you're out there, you know, doing weights, there are a chance that you could hurt yourself again, and emotions are exactly the same. If you get out there too soon, and your heart is still damaged, all you're going to do is pass on your damage to your new partner.

So it's important to give yourself some time and space to heal those wounds to talk about it to figure out where you went wrong. You don't want to dive into the next relationship and repeat the same pattern because that is exactly what's going to happen. So very unconscious thing. You want to know that okay, I get this I understand why I went wrong and I'm not going to let that happen again.

Anthony Hartcher 20:05 
And just leading on to that. So, you know, once they've gone on that self-healing journey, they've, you know, understood themselves better, understood where they were going wrong in the previous relationship, they've started to improve themselves in those areas. What is it that really underlies a strong, successful next relationship? So what are the key foundations you see to a successful relationship?

Leanne Kanzler 20:33 
Well, really, it's about, first of all, loving yourself enough to discern what kind of relationship you want and to be able to be vulnerable enough to talk to your partner openly and honestly, and not pretend that you're someone that you're not. Here to have fun, to never take your partner for granted, if you're with someone who loves to give, and you know, they do everything for you to always acknowledge that. Now, my husband likes to cook. So he does most of the cooking. And on the occasion that I do cook, he always thanks me, and I say, Why are you thanking me?

Like, I'm part of this relationship and he's, like, well, because I appreciate that you did that. Okay. But secretly, I'm really grateful that he's thanking me, so it's those little things like, you know, I really acknowledging that our partners are there, we are there as a team, we're not there to expect that someone's going to, for us, someone's going to claim for us, someone's going to have sex with us. It's all about being open and honest, and talking about what our needs are, how can I help you? And in the giving, if everyone was in a relationship to give, imagine how much happier we were, we would be.

But so many people are in a relationship to take, I'm going to take everything from you, because I'm so needy and that never works because the other person will feel drained and terrible and your cup will never be filled and that happens when we, we are wounded and we just need the other person to fix us and to heal us. So you know, there, there are so many things that we can talk about in terms of how to make a relationship work and I think the biggest one is being really aware of what's triggering you? What are you fighting about? If you're fighting about the housework? Is it really because you're exhausted and tired and feel like you're being taken for granted?

You know, are you cooperating with each other? Are you listening? Like really listening to your partner? Are you contributing? You know, it's, it's really frustrating when I see couples where somebody is doing a lot of gaming or going out and the other person is doing everything in regards to the children. Now there has to be a shared responsibility between men and women. Yeah, and this is not just men, women do this sort of stuff as well, where they tune out and they just don't want to be there. By then it's probably a bit too late. But you know, really listening to each other, maintaining that physical contact, because that's really important as well. Understanding each other's needs and your own needs. So important.

Anthony Hartcher 23:27 
Yeah, and I think under that, well, it's really working as a team, isn't it? Ultimately, you're, you're a united team with a common objective, which is, you know, I guess it's gonna vary for different couples as to what their objective is, but really, you know, if you have a united objective, and you're working towards that together, then you know, it's, it's going to be a journey that you both go on together and enjoy in terms of that listening.

So, you know, we talk about, you know, I'm listening, but it's more than active listening. So where do you think men like so? I, you know, I hear it, you know, I hear it in my relationship, in other relationships with men that are you just don't listen to me. So what is it? What is it that the females looking for around listening, when you could probably repeat the last few sentences, is it that you're not pressed as they think is that they sense you're not present? Or, you know, I'm just trying, maybe it's different for every circumstance. But what do you find is common around, men don't listen?

Leanne Kanzler 24:37 
Well, I'll use an example of a technique I use that will explain that a little bit more. So sometimes, with couples where I get them to do is face each other, and one person talks and the other person reflects back on what's being said. So in doing that, the other person is not allowed to ask questions. They're not allowed to in interpret, they just have to say back to the other person what's being said and at the end of that, say, five minutes, the other person really feels like they've been listened to. So when someone's not being listened to what often happens is that the conversation gets steered in another direction.

It gets steered to art, but what about me? So if someone says, I'm so tired, and then the other person says, oh, yeah, so am I, and then it gets all about them. So, okay, I might as well not have spoken. So it's about not making the conversation about yourself. So really hearing what the other person has said, and, and reflecting back to them. So if someone says, I'm really tired, you don't make it about you, you instead will say, tell me why, what's happening for you today? What's going on for you? How can I help you? And then also saying, Yeah, I feel the same way. Yeah, what can we do?

You know, rather than making it about me, listening to the words that are being said, so often people will take on board what's being said, as an attack, when it's actually got nothing to do with you. So I see that a lot in relationships where someone will say, I'm not coping, and the other one will say, Oh, but I do everything. Like, it's just not what I'm saying. So if you feel like your partner's not listening to you, and this has been going on for ages, even if it's now your ex, and you still have to deal with them, and they're just not hearing what you're saying.

Change the words that you use, change the language that you're using, you know, if you keep saying the same thing over and over and over again, and they're not hearing you, you've got to say it in a different way and that might take a little bit of practice, or really sitting down and thinking, I've been saying for 10 years that I need help in the house, and that's not working. How can I say this differently? And you know, you might have to have a chat with someone about that to get some tips around that. But not listening really is about A, I'm not communicating this well enough, and B, my person is interpreting it in a different way.

Anthony Hartcher 27:11 
Yeah, it's great. Because it really depends on the I guess, the receivers space they're in terms of, you know, if they have they cleared their mind from, you know, whatever their stresses were in the day or whatever, you know, because if they're not in a good receiving space, then they can really feel exactly what you said in relation to that, you know, that exchange of communication? Because, yeah, that it's like, I guess you would probably liken it to their buckets about the top topple over and, yeah, they just haven't received that message well.

Even though Yeah, yeah. So it's a, it's a really challenging one is it because if you start thinking about the busy modern lifestyle, you know, both partners or you know, working and raising kids and you know, stressful careers, and I can see how this could easily break down in a simple exchange because the other person's just not in that right capacity to receive what's being said, but the other person needs to say what they've said because they're struggling as well. It's like, Do you have any.

Leanne Kanzler 28:19 
Choosing your moment, it, that's such a great point. If you walk through the door, and first thing, you say something negative, then definitely not going to get a good response from that. If someone's doing something on the phone, and you're trying to get their attention, it's never going to work. It's like with young children, if they're doing something, you've got to get their attention. So, unfortunately, pure adults do that way as well.

You know, my daughter says to me, if mom goes, you know, she's not really listening. Okay, and usually what I'll do is I'll go, and then I'll say, Sorry, what did you say? So I've kind of said, Yes, but I wasn't really focusing. So she knows how to get my attention before she asked me something. So getting someone's attention could mean saying, I need to talk to you. Can we put all distractions away, you know, turn the TV off, put the phone down, is now a good time? And the answer might be no, and you have to respect that.

Can we have a bit of a chat, you know, in half an hour, you know, the whole we have to talk thing, never say that because that never goes down well. So really, it's about getting that that focused attention getting that person and making sure that they are really there, present and ready to hear whatever it is that you have to say and also know that if what you're saying is overwhelming, it's okay to say alright, this conversation is now actually ending because when someone goes an L overwhelmed, they're not listening anymore, let's continue is a bit later.

Anthony Hartcher 30:02 
I'll just take you to like, it really feels like, you know, in terms of you need to schedule that time with your partner, you know, like it's it, do you find some helpful straight? Or can you share some helpful strategies about sort of creating that space in your diary? You know, I don't know whether it's walking in talks together on a regular basis where you are with one another and it's sort of an opportunity to air those things on a regular basis, as opposed to, you know, things are a breaking point, I need to find some time with you, you're too busy, I need to book it into your diary, it just doesn't seem right to me when it's a relationship. Like I was just wondering if you have some strategies around that, in terms of creating that space.

Leanne Kanzler 30:48 
I think it has to happen every day, honestly, like when you get home, turn off all devices, the TV, the phone, all that sort of stuff, and sit at the table and eat and talk. So simple as that. People complain that you know, I don't know my partner anymore. Well, when's the last time you had a really good conversation with them? When's the last time you told them something important about yourself when's the last time you listened? When's the last time you created a beautiful, safe space to have awesome sex, you know, all of these sorts of things have to happen regularly.

If you think about when people first get together, it happens naturally, and then what happens, they take each other for granted. They have fights, the distance, you know, all this sort of stuff. So if for a great relationship to last and to not end in divorce, you have to do these things all the time, all the time.

It's not, it's the scheduled thing that happens when people are at breaking point and I have advised people to kind of schedule it every second day or sign because they're so out of routine and they feel like they're so busy that they don't know how to do it and the scheduling thing can help people get back into a bit of a routine, but really want it to, to flow to just to go naturally and all the people who have a good relationship, they talk to each other, whether it be like hi, you know, they turn off their radio, and they actually talk to each other, you know, this sort of stuff?

Anthony Hartcher 32:28 
That's, it's great advice there because, you know, what I'm hearing is that when you're dating and courting, the priority is always that other person because you know, you're in pursuit, or, you know, you want the court, you know, and it's all prioritised around them and so you're orienting everything you do around them.

Whereas exactly right, over time, that you take it for granted that that person's in your life, and you pursue other things, and, and those other things become the priority and that person, you know, goes lower down the priority ladder and I think that's what you got to avoid, you got to keep them at the top. Because ultimately, we're humans, you know, we are social beings, we need strength in our relationships and so we should prioritise our relationships, and keep them a priority.

Leanne Kanzler 33:21 
And we all know how expensive divorces and the cost of divorce is not just financial, there is a huge emotional toll. If you have children, there is an untold emotional burden on children. This, the legal, the anger, that hurt, all that sort of stuff. So if people continue to work on their relationship from the beginning, then they also save themselves a world of pain and create beautiful loving, and long lasting relationships.

So I guess that's part of what I want to do is to help people understand that so that when they go into the next relationship, they can create something that will be for a lifetime. I mean, that's why we get married, right? We have this expectation that we can get to be with this person forever, and then it just doesn't work. So we have to learn from that.

Anthony Hartcher 34:20 
And so how do you help these couples? Do you have a specific programme that you take couples on? How do you work with these men that are coming from broken relationships that need you to know, looking for the next partner? Yeah. Tell us a bit about you and your services and how it works.

Leanne Kanzler 34:36 
Yeah, so with couples, I don't have a specific programme, it's just, they come in and we work on whatever's going on. But with the men, I've definitely do have a programme and it's there's nine modules. The very last module is all about dating again and making sure you're dateable and the other modules, but they're pretty deep, I guess, yeah, they really help guys too.

It starts off with the basics on what to do to get yourself back in order and then we work through emotions and understanding your own values and who you are as a person now, you know, setting some goals for the future, making sure you've got good legal advice, and perhaps financial advice as well, because that's not my thing, my mind is all about the emotions. Every module has a separate section for dads. So if guys are not fathers, they don't have to read all the dead stuff in between they can, the fathers can just read that, at the end.

There is also some, I guess, tasks to do in between just to really help them to really get in touch with who they are and they can do this on their own, where they can just get the modules and work through it on their own or they can do it with me one to one in person or via zoom, depending on where they are and I'm actually just about to start a group like a support group on Facebook as well.

So that's very new, I haven't got the name of that yet, but it's gonna happen. Um, so yeah, there's lots of ways of helping the men and because I've been a psychologist and a coach for a long time, now I use lots of different techniques too, to help them connect back to who they are and understand what it is that they want for themselves.

Anthony Hartcher 36:31 
And how can couples and men reach out to you? How the heck can they best contact you?

Leanne Kanzler 36:37 
Um, they can either go to my website, Leanne Kanzler.com, or they can go to Instagram, which is @thedivorcecoach or they can send me an email which I can get off the website. So lots of ways. Yeah.

Anthony Hartcher 36:55 
And I'll include all those links in the show notes so that the listeners can go straight to the link and click on it is there any concluding comments you'd like to share with divorced men out there, or men that are struggling to post a relationship or even to couples his unique concluding words you'd like to share with us?

Leanne Kanzler 37:16 
I just like to really say that there is always hope, you know, sometimes we can feel like there's no hope my life is over. But a divorce can absolutely be an opportunity for you to learn and to grow and to figure out who you are and what you want for the rest of your life.

There is an abundance of help out there, you may not know it, but they're really, truly is and if you are really struggling, and at the end of the tailor, or if you know anyone who is, please reach out, please help these guys to reach out. The suicide rate in Australia is around seven men a day, that's two and a half 1000 guys a year taking their own lives, and a lot more who attempted and fortunately, do not succeed and it's because they just feel like they have no hope, especially in regards to the children.

If you know anyone who is holding back the kids, because child support isn't being paid or you know, some sort of controlling reason, that's just abusing the kids. And it's not fair. So we really have to keep that in mind as well and I'd like to encourage all women to really take a good hard look at what is important in the lives of children and you know, not use their kids and men as well, of course, it happens by size where children are stuck in the middle. There's so much we could say so much, but I guess the big message is that there is help out there and please take it.

Anthony Hartcher 38:51 
Thanks, Leanne, and you shared so much wisdom and I've learned a lot personally too, in terms of what you shared today. So I really appreciate you sharing so much on this important topic of you know how to help our relationships get stronger, and those that haven't worked out for whatever reason, to see them as you said as a reset and to reset yourself and look, look for the opportunity to rebuild yourself as a person and to really grow from that and you know that that personal growth is going to help that next relationship.

So thanks again, Leanne, for the listeners, if you have liked the episode, please share it with others we would really like to extend these great tips that Leanne has shared with us today to get to more people so please share the episode with others and particularly those men you know, that are struggling post a relationship breakdown and like it and also leave a review because it all helps with us getting the great word out there on how to make a better society around improved relationships. So stay tuned for more insightful episodes of me and my health up.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai