Have you ever wondered if there's an alternative to traditional surgery for spinal or knee problems?
Are you interested in how new medical treatments, like regenerative medicine, can prevent certain surgeries and help you look and feel younger?
Discover the fascinating realm of regenerative medicine with Anthony Hartcher, your trusted clinical nutritionist and lifestyle medicine specialist, in this episode of the 'me&my health up' podcast. Joined by Dr. Jeffrey Gross, a neurosurgeon turned regenerative medicine expert, they unravel the potential of stem cell therapy, offering new perspectives on health and ageing.
Unearth the profound insights into mitigating degenerative conditions, lifestyle optimisation, and the exciting future of 'designer exosomes.' This enlightening episode is a must-listen for anyone invested in their long-term health and wellness. Dive in to unlock a fresh outlook on medicine and longevity.
About Dr. Jeffrey Gross:
Regenerative stem cell medicine and anti-aging specialist.
Spine fellowship-trained neurological surgeon.
Author of book chapters and medical research cited over 1000 times.
Treats athletic injuries of the hip, knee, shoulders, spine, and more.
Conservative specialist offering precision medical, longevity, and biohacking consultations to reduce disease and improve health span.
Undergraduate degree in Biochemistry from U.C. Berkeley
Medical degree of the George
Washington University School of Medicine
International award-winning speaker at Biohacking and Stem Cell conferences.
me&my health up seeks to enhance and enlighten the well-being of others. Host Anthony Hartcher is the CEO of me&my wellness which provides holistic health solutions using food as medicine, combined with a holistic, balanced, lifestyle approach. Anthony holds three bachelor's degrees in Complementary Medicine; Nutrition and Dietetic Medicine; and Chemical Engineering.
Podcast Disclaimer Any information, advice, opinions or statements within it do not constitute medical, health care or other professional advice, and are provided for general information purposes only. All care is taken in the preparation of the information in this Podcast. [Connected Wellness Pty Ltd] operating under the brand of “me&my health up”..click here for more
Welcome back to another insightful episode of me&my health up. I'm your host, Anthony Hartcher. I'm a clinical nutritionist and lifestyle medicine specialist. The purpose of this podcast is to enhance and enlighten your well being. And today we have a very special guest like we always do. We have Dr. Jeffrey Gross, he is a neurosurgeon and he's a medical professional embrace medicine went out and practice and then realize that for many years for treating his clients with drugs, and surgery is thought there's got to be a better approach. There's got to be a new cutting edge way to do medicine. So we went back to school and retrained in regenerative medicine. So yes, we're talking about regenerative medicine. So this is also known as stem cells. So it it basically essentially enhancing the way in which our stem cells work in our bodies, and making them more effective actually doing the tasks that they're designed to do, which is regenerative. So what we have inflammation, we have aging, we have a degenerative process. And a lot of these health conditions that we experience are a result of a degenerating process. We call it Inflammageing. And so the longevity movement is is all about biohacking, and about reducing that Inflammageing. And stem cells is a way of doing this. And we get into what is it about stem cells, how they work? who was for and it's for those out there with ailments that don't want surgery? Again, it's not going to prevent all surgery. But for things like knee operations, it can really or a spinal operation. So Dr. Jeffrey gross uses it for spinal surgery as a alternative as an option for his clients. But obviously, he assesses what is going to be best for his clients in front of him or based on what is the need, and what he can do to help that clients but stem cells, replacements therapy is a fantastic it's not really replacement therapy, it is actually helping your stem cells work better. So it's a intravenous way. Dr. Jeffrey Gross is the expert. He's going to be sharing more about this. And so without much further ado, I'd love to welcome you into this episode on regenerative medicine with Dr. Jeffrey Gross. Welcome on the me&my health up podcast, Dr. Jeffrey gross. How are you doing today?
Jeffrey Gross:
Very well, thank you for having me.
Anthony Hartcher:
Such a delight to have you on. I really love what you have in LinkedIn in terms of the stem cell whisperer. So we're certainly going to be digging into a bit more about that and finding, you know more about regenerative medicine, I haven't had a guest on the show that spoken to regenerative medicine, we've certainly had guests on the show talking about longevity, and some bio hacks around longevity. But we haven't had anyone talk about stem cells. So this is new insight for the listeners of me&my health up. I really appreciate you coming on.
Jeffrey Gross:
Thank you. Appreciate it and looking forward to sharing.
Anthony Hartcher:
Now fantastic. I always start with this one question that listeners are very familiar with is how you've arrived at what you're doing today.
Jeffrey Gross:
Well, I'll try to give a shortened version but I trained in, in traditional medicine after having bachelor's work in molecular biology and biochemistry. And when when you sort of go down this funnel into clinical medicine, and you're treating patients and you know, I've had over a 25 year career in practicing, you know, traditional medicine, you sort of miss that science, that nerdy part of me misses the cellular science and a lots happened and in the time since I have that undergraduate degree. So I was compelled to go back and relearn that, and it's updated material because I was frustrated. My patients were frustrated, because I treated a lot of spines and and I went into regenerative medicine because of my patients who didn't want these big open surgeries. But they had an ailment that was still plaguing them. They wanted something in between there. So I went back to help find that and we've been very happy to help fill that.
Anthony Hartcher:
So your specialty is neurosurgery. Is
Jeffrey Gross:
Right. Well, I would say it was my first that right? specialty.
Anthony Hartcher:
And then you've updated you've upgraded
Jeffrey Gross:
right? I guess I'm dual now so I still see my patients with spinal problems and, and that kind of thing. But now going into regenerative medicine over the last five years I've blossomed into a various aspects of what stem cells and their related biologics can do whether it's longevity medicine, anti aging, biohacking and now treating other parts besides the spine?
Anthony Hartcher:
Yeah, so let's get into regenerative medicine, the, you know, and talking about stem cells and how, how that type of approach can really help? Well, first of all, let's find out who it's for. Obviously, it's helping your spinal patients. But who else is it for?
Jeffrey Gross:
Well, I would say most commonly, at least in my own office, we see patients with mechanical joint problems. So not just the spine, but a lot of knee patients shoulders, athletes, overuse syndromes, people who have wear and tear, or you know, what's sometimes called bone on bone, or what we doctors call osteoarthritis. People trying to avoid a knee replacement, perhaps these are perfect candidates to try something else. First, I'd say the second group is dealing with something more involving the organ systems, whether it's Type 2 diabetes, or some other problem that has an inflammatory nature. And all the word inflammation or inflammatory is, it's kind of a little bit vague, you know, we know that word in response to a beasting, or an infection or a cut, or something like this. But really, inflammatory programming is of a cell as a degenerative deteriorating programming, it's an aging programming, someone wise combined the words inflammation, and aging, called an Inflammageing, you may have heard that because you've had other guests and the longevity side. So anything we do on the regenerative side is working against that inflammatory cell programming, flipping the cell activity into restorative healing, more youthful mode.
Anthony Hartcher:
And so it's that inflammation that's really not really allowing the regeneration process to happen. And the cells regressing as a result of not regenerating.
Jeffrey Gross:
Correct, we're either degenerating slowly, or in some cases more rapidly, or we are regenerating, the cells have one way or the other. It's kind of like our metabolism, when we when we eat, we're storing, you know, we sugar and insulin and, and we're storing or we're burning, there's really no in between, there's no middle ground, you're flipping one way or the other.
Anthony Hartcher:
So in terms of this regenerative approach, it's is it because of this western lifestyle? That's really sort of, you know, I guess, stopping our system from doing what it should be doing?
Jeffrey Gross:
In part, yes, I mean, you know, we are exposed to so many man-made chemicals and electromagnetic forces, and, you know, physical wear and tear and psychological stresses. Now, some of these things existed when we were, you know, prehistoric, or cavemen. But certainly, we are exposed to so many cellular stresses, and those are threats to our cells and the bodies and the cells responses to threat is inflammation. It's a defense mechanism. The problem is we're so busy defending ourselves, that we can't heal, as well as we did when we were younger or many, many, many generations ago. So that I would say that in part that that is the cause. The other part is, we are not so naturally based anymore, we are not eating like we should organically as we should, as we could, you know, and it's just very difficult to to avoid pollutions and toxins and things in our water that some of them we probably don't even know about.
Anthony Hartcher:
And in terms of the they talk about first line of therapy, second line of therapy and and that where do you see the stem cell or regenerative medicine, therapy fitting into what people should be looking at? Should they be looking at, first of all, addressing their lifestyle and what they can? Or do they do it in parallel? What do you recommend to your clients around this?
Jeffrey Gross:
I agree with where your questions taking us and where it's taking us is, is if we if we make all the right changes and try to get back to the earth and the organics and, and a version of dangerous things in our life. We'd be doing ourselves a favor. That's called epigenetics. And you know, you're born with your genetics, you have your genes, but what genes are active and being used and influenced in the cell, determined a lot and that can be from how you eat and how you how you sleep and how you breathe and what air you breathe and all these things. So plus, if I were to help someone with stem cell type medicine, if their body is exposed to cigarettes and alcohol and too many bad things. I'm really putting in a bad these biologics in a bad environment, they're not going to do well. So it's almost not worth it. So if we're talking about longevity and health, and doing doing the right thing for a person, I agree with you that the first line thing to do is get your house in order.
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Anthony Hartcher:
How fantastic. I'm glad we're on the same page. You certainly talking to the listeners of me and my health app. So really keen to and obviously there's various factors that would encourage someone to go and seek stem cell therapy as opposed to having surgery, because it's probably it's that next level in the sense that you're not, it's not so invasive as surgery, right? It's, it's less invasive than normal surgery. Well, there's a there's a level of invasiveness. But if you could just talk, if you could just talk through, I guess, what it is and how it works.
Jeffrey Gross:
Sure. So you know, I group things into two main categories of approach. The one is systemic. So if we're dealing with system disease, or inflammation, it's usually an intravenous. So it's a needle, if it's more directed to a specific spot or spots like a knee problem, or something like that. It's a needle, it's a direct injection. So really, we can't do much topically and stem cells and exosomes and other biologics just don't penetrate the skin. Well, our skin is an amazing barrier. So, so we really don't do much topically. I have done some eyedrops, and some we have some breathing some inhalational things for people with, you know, in inflammatory lung conditions, but the vast majority are injected in some form.
Anthony Hartcher:
And in terms of where they're coming from, where they're coming from the person that is seeking the surgery, or is are they coming from because I know that you've gone into a special area. So if you could just share with the listeners about your unique approach to stem cell therapy, how it's different and what are the benefits in doing your specialty around this.
Jeffrey Gross:
Sure, and my my approach isn't unique. You know, I'm standing on the shoulders of giants and others who have done this before me but there are two main sources of biologics and stem cells may be biologics, exosomes may be biologics. And those are yourself, because we're using our own every day, and someone else's. So I'm 57. If I take my 57 year old stem cells and re inject them in myself, they act as if they're 57. I'm looking for some youthful source of healing. If I can go off script here for a minute, and you think about a three year old who's skins his knee on the sidewalk, and you know, he cries, Mother kisses it, put some antiseptic on it, here's your bandage Go about your, your way. Three days later, the bandaid falls off in the bath and the scab is almost completely healed. And, you know, I know if I scraped myself, you know, it's two weeks later, it's still it's still healing. I want to heal like that three year old. And the best way to do that is to get some of that younger biologics. Well, we don't want to harvest from a three year old, they don't like that but turns out there's some what used to be considered medical waste that we can now have donated and that comes from perinatal source. So a mother delivers a baby by C section. And instead of throwing away the placenta and the umbilical cord and the amniotic fluid, that's treasurer now used to be trash. Now it's treasure. It's taken, it's processed in a sterile lab. It is screened and tested to make sure it's free of disease, and that can then be reused in the aspect where we're trying to appeal to people who need a youthful healing growth factors. It's like revved up stem cell activation.
Anthony Hartcher:
Absolutely. I could totally relate to what you're saying in terms of that three old example having children myself and so yeah, quickly they heal. And, it's a bit of a how quickly they bounce back. And yeah, it's yeah, in terms of you mentioned in terms of, you know, grabbing that ambilobe embryolic cord fluid and the placenta and and working with that, and there's a sterilization process, is there any risk to the patient when this is injected in them, that may not be completely sterile or that risk has been taken away?
Jeffrey Gross:
Well, we only work with labs that are compliant with our, you know, federal rules, because the FDA here in the States, I'm sure there are parallel organizations elsewhere. So it has to go through certain sterility process, certain screening process, and each one is tracked by a lot number. You know, nothing's 100%, right, this is all a 99.9% situation. There have been there has been an issue in the past and in a particular lab, and there was a group in one of our states called Nebraska that went through a series of infections. So these processes improve all the time. But that's also no different than any pharmaceutical that you might take, or an EM implant you might have or food you might eat that could be tainted with E. Coli. We have risks everywhere around us. So the processes and the requirements are improving all the time.
Anthony Hartcher:
And is this treatment facilitated in a hospital? Or can it be done in a doctor's surgery or where was facilitated?
Jeffrey Gross:
So you know, a lot of the IVs and the very simple injections we can do here in the office under, you know, clean conditions. antiseptics, what have you, when I do some of the joint work, I'm following a process of the French who have over 15 year follow up with joint restoration. And instead of injecting the joints, they inject the bone just above and below the joint, because that's where the stem cells are, that need to be reinvigorated to deposit produce, and really regenerate that cartilage based joint. So because no one likes bone injections, we do tend to do those at a local surgery facility. It's not a hospital, it's a clean room, it's got an x ray guidance, we do a light sedation, little Twilight, so takes me 10,15 minutes, and then the patients enjoy that a little bit better.
Anthony Hartcher:
So it's not like a hospital either. Like where you're going in for day surgery or night surgery not like that experience. It's it's
Jeffrey Gross:
We call them here in the state, you'd call them surgery centers, basically, people go in there for injections, or a very minor procedures where they can have administered sedation or anesthesia. And they can recover the patient. No one's planning to stay there. It's not a hospital. It's not an overnight deal.
Anthony Hartcher:
Yeah, okay. And earlier, you mentioned in terms of this can be really helpful for autoimmune conditions. And I'm just thinking from that risk element, when you're injecting someone else's stem cells, is there a risk there that that body may attack that stem cell and maybe reject it? Is that a risk in this?
Jeffrey Gross:
So, it's a great question, theoretically, yes, as it turns out, though, we don't see that in practice, because the stem cells or the other biologics tend to be what's called immunomodulatory. They temper the immune system. So one can't necessarily have that, you know, exaggerated immune response. So that's why we find it a very anti inflammatory as an approach. And that's why it's so good in dealing with diseases that have an inflammatory component, which include most of the diseases of aging, since Aging has really accumulated inflammation. So autoimmune diseases are great if you're attacking your thyroid, or you're attacking your joints, because you have some type of arthritis, then these IV approaches are ideal. We don't see any rejection. We do, interestingly, see a very temporary flu like response. And if you think about it, when you have a flu illness, you ache everywhere your joints hurt, it's because you've accumulated all these inflammatory proteins and cytokines and little chemicals. So what's happening is if your body has a buildup of all these inflammatory proteins, this approach with the stem cell based biologics causes the cells to release that you feel achy as they're leaving your body, you know, you're they're accumulating for a bit. So we have for example, people with Lyme disease who have significant inflammation, and they have a significant flu response for a number of days after then they feel better.
Anthony Hartcher:
And what's it's going to be a case by case depending on your age and what condition you've been treated for, I guess that period of treatment we face like it I assume it's not a one off injection. You're Yeah. Anyway, I'm not sure but what's the process for a client like just say if they're coming in for a they got type two diabetes and you're thinking or Maybe we can, you know, heal the pancreas or support the pancreas. And you're going to work from that. What's the period of time? You'd work with them?
Jeffrey Gross:
Well, actually, I would like it to be a one off injection. You know, are we? Are we curing or healing? Or are we just resetting the inflammatory burden back a number of years, and we just wait until we need to maybe approach it again, you know, it's not clear. And you're right, it does start with how healthy someone is to begin with. But we don't, we don't look to do multiple treatments, if they're not necessary, we look to do one good one and measure the response. And so far, my clients with problems who have had some type of approach to exosomes or stem cell activation, and have not needed additional care, now, I've only been doing this, you know, up to five years, so I don't have a 10 or 15 year longevity. But if you look at the literature, particularly the French literature I referenced, they have over a 15 year follow up with in their nice study with the bone injections only 15% Give or take of clients needed then to be reevaluated for a problem. So 85% at 15 years, to me, that's fantastic.
Anthony Hartcher:
And so I'm just thinking in terms of once the stem cells are administered, its then the healing process takes place with the bodies that will those stem cells doing their work differentiating, becoming what they need to in order to do that repair work. And so it's really up to that person's ability to Well, I guess, if they're also doing things in conjunction with that therapy that supports healing, such as, you know, getting restorative sleep you mentioned or eating good nourishing foods, organic foods and, you know, breathing fresh air and all that sort of, so that's also going to help that process of that, you know, bone recovery, or the Is that Is that right? In terms of
Jeffrey Gross:
Yeah, I mean, you know, there's there's a lot more to a complex way. A stem cell delivery is actually activating someone's own stem cells, through cell to cell communication, exosomes on it starts a period of regeneration now that doesn't last forever. But if it regenerates enough of whatever is needed, for example, pancreatic islet cells, or you know, cartilage in the joint, then you can restore back enough function to remove whatever symptoms, that doesn't mean, you then go about your normal, you know, stress on your knee joint, and then over time, you're wearing it down again, of course, but, you know, if you have a solution, you can apply it again when needed down the line.
Anthony Hartcher:
Okay, so it's activating the, that person's stem cells. But I just a bit confused in terms of when we spoke about before about why would you inject so those stem cells, those younger stem cells communicate to the oldest stem cells to perform like a youngest stem cell? And
Jeffrey Gross:
That's exactly right. When you when you receive a stem cell delivery, you receive those cells, those cells don't last long. But they do communicate with your own stem cells, and your own cells and they reinvigorate the pathways and they activate the stem cells to also give off more of these cell to cell communication packets called extracellular vesicles. Or I've been using the word exosomes, which is one way to refer to them. And when I was mentioning earlier, I like to use the word stem cell biologics, because we can skip that stem cells step, say that 10 times fast. We can skip that step and go right to the exosomes. exosomes can be available made available by these labs, and they can be concentrated and delivered instead of stem cells. And we like that because they have no cells, there's no DNA you're receiving. And they do the same job if not more efficaciously than a stem cell delivery. So I'm a big fan now of sort of the next step in stem cell biologics, which is extracellular vesicles
Anthony Hartcher:
I was gonna ask you what is the future of stem cells or regenerative medicine? Where is it heading? And I guess you've answered that.
Jeffrey Gross:
Well, I think that's part of the present where it's heading would be designer exosomes, exosomes, where we can stuff the cargo with additional growth factors or specific proteins that help the pancreas better than some generic exosome, so that's coming. There are already people working on that there was a paper in the last year for cosmetic purposes. It's it's coming, you know, there'll be weight loss exosomes, they'll there. And the other beauty about exosomes, if I can insert an advertisement for exosomes is they cross the blood brain barrier. So if you have Parkinson's disease, which does have an inflammatory component, if you have I'm sorry, Alzheimer's disease which has an inflammatory component, if you have other types of neurologic inflammation what simply might call leaky blood brain barrier, exosomes will get their stem cells do not cross very well, they're too big. So I'm a bigger fan of exosomes, particularly in the nervous system when I when I have patients with spinal cord neuropathic pain. We like to use the exosomes for that reason, because we can deliver them intravenous, I don't have to do a spinal tap to deliver them. Nobody likes a spinal tap, if you can avoid it.
Anthony Hartcher:
Totally understand it doesn't sound all that. How can they like the listeners best connect with you? If they're thinking, well, wow, I really liked the sound of this, it sounds a lot better than getting knee surgery or hip surgery or, you know, so how can they best connect with you?
Jeffrey Gross:
Sure, I mean, we're on available on all those social channels. And we have a website, my company is called reCELLebrate because we are reactivating your own cells. And that's spelled R E C E L L E B R A T E, and you can go to
https:
//recellebrate.com/ you could find us on TikTok, I put out some little informational shorts, and Instagram all the all the fun channels out there. And yeah, reach out to us send us a message. We do like to educate people and talk. And we can do it through the magic of you know, video conferencing like this, and help give people direction on what their options are. Because for so many years, that's a traditional doctor, I didn't give people regenerative medicine options, because I wasn't trained to. And now I can and I'm very happy about that.
Anthony Hartcher:
And just in terms of wrapping up this episode, we're seeing a lot of cardio metabolic diseases. And you mentioned one earlier, Type 2 diabetes, and now there's some drugs out there in the market that are really helping people achieve rapid weight loss, but they got to keep injecting the drug for that to work. And just like with any drug that needs to be applied and continually applied, is this a real game changer in terms of addressing that rising tide of Type 2 diabetes? Is this really the way in which, you know, clients with Type 2 diabetes should be looking at addressing their Type 2 diabetes?
Jeffrey Gross:
The best treatment for Type 2 diabetes is prevented. And that can be through, you know, not only diet and good lifestyle, but, you know, removing a lot of the pesticides and other other things that that affect our insulin sensitivity that are in our environment that aren't our fault. Not all Type 2 diabetes is self inflicted. However, I am a fan of the peptide based therapies. So peptides are small proteins semaglutide, for example, which is one of the weight loss injectables. We call it a drug but it's really a peptide that's part of glucagon, it binds the glucagon receptor. So it's biologic, it's almost a biologic. It's a designer biologic, and, you know, inject injecting is tedious and you have to become, you know, used to it. But it's a once a week injection, it's a great way to get the pounds off and reverse Type 2 diabetes. I don't think currently there's a there's a stem cell biologic that's directly useful for weight loss, although I'm sure designer exosomes are coming to do that. I think what we're really asking here is, is there a stem cell or exosome approach to better metabolism? The answer is probably yes. But that's the, that might be the cheating way to get there.
Anthony Hartcher:
To get back to the basics is what you're saying. Get back to the fundamentals.
Jeffrey Gross:
And I'm a big fan of semaglutide. So if you need that to get to where you need to go get there. Yeah, you know, it's, it's, it's not so much a pharmaceutical, like some of the manmade synthetic things are, even though this is somewhat synthetic, it's it's a biologic, it's a it's a biomimetic, it's used to bind to a receptor, that that's giving us trouble. So if you bind that glucagon receptor and lose weight, it's a great, great way to get down there. That doesn't mean now you can go have all the the bad food, you used to have still got to make the right epigenetic lifestyle changes and get your house in order.
Anthony Hartcher:
And that's what you said before it even with regenerative medicine, it's it's doing both in parallel is where the optimal health or the longevity is really going to come.
Jeffrey Gross:
Absolutely.
Anthony Hartcher:
Yeah. And do you have any concluding words for the listeners in wrapping up this episode?
Jeffrey Gross:
Yes, sleep right, breathe right, eat in a restricted time window. Make sure you get your protein longevity is associated with muscle mass and bone density. weight bearing exercise is the best way to reduce inflammation without regenerative medicine. It's also the best way to prevent dementia. weight bearing would be you know, walking, jogging, running, lifting, lifting weights and not to be heavy. You can mix it up during the week, a little bit of cardio a little But of weightlifting, it doesn't have to be it doesn't have to you know, be a burden you can make it fun and every day and that will that will give you extra years of life and prevent you from needing to you know have have a knee replacement anyway.
Anthony Hartcher:
Thank you so much Dr. Jeffery gross really appreciate your coming on the show sharing your wisdom with me and my health app listeners.
Jeffrey Gross:
Happy to be here thank you again.
Anthony Hartcher:
And to the listeners thank you for tuning in to another insightful episode of me&my health up stay tuned in for more insightful episodes. And for those that you know out there that are looking for potentially avoiding surgery or you know, looking at a knee replacement or an athlete that wants to get back on track quicker then please share this episode with them it's certainly a great alternative to what else is out there and could be what really is right for them and you know they could reach out to Dr Jeffrey gross and and see whether it's the right thing for what they want to treat and you know he'll ultimately so thanks for tuning in and share it with others.
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